Designer

I have group 27 battery on Carlita and a 50 watt Renogy solar panel on the forehatch. All of my lights including the masthead tricolor are LED's. I run the GPS and charge cell phone and tablet and occasionally run a small fan mounted near the forward bulkhead vent while sleeping in hot weather. I have used an inverter to charge my laptop. Except for my first battery that had some age on it when it went bad on me, I always have enough power. I have spent hours at night after a days sail, checking the forecast, plotting the next days routing and have not run out of power. It is a good idea to allow for more power than you think that you need as it is more costly to to increase later plus you do not know how much charging you will get if it is overcast or your course puts the panel in the shade. Another key component is the charge controller, don't go cheap or undersize or it will restrict charge when conditions are ideal and give you less in poor charging conditions. I like to size it so that I can add another panel if I find that my demands get ahead of what my panel can give. Another pleasing thing I find with this system is that with Carlita being stored under shelter during the winter is that there is enough light to keep the battery up.

Starboard, I am glad to hear that you are getting such good service from the boat. I agree with you on forward flotation tanks. I tried out the prototype S10 without those tanks thinking that no one would need to sit there. The first capsize test showed the error in my thinking. Like you found, with the forward compartment full, plus the free surface effect of the water sloshing from side to side encouraged a recapsize. I put the tanks in and the next test was night and day. Because the daggerboard is slightly forward of the capsized center of buoyancy, I found that if I put an aft twist as I pushed down on the board, I could keep all of the water out of the boat except for the bit that sits inside the gunwales. Typically with a standard layout I could get it up with about two gallons in the boat, which meant that I could sail on and leave it to the bailer to remove. The nesting version is not as good but if the bow section is dry it will be a lot easier to self rescue. A lot of laser rigs have ended up on Spindrifts and have given good service. Unless you are very good sailors I recommend cutting about 2 feet off of the bottom of the sail and maybe about 14" to 18" off the of the lower mast to get the right boom clearance. We developed the sleeve luff single line reefing system for cruisers because the day might start out light but it can get very strong by the time you need to return. I love the picture of the boat on the beach at Catalina Island.

What Ken has not told you is that he is building a 9 which has a lot less stability than the 10. Also it is built from 4mm instead of 6mm ply because a light boat was important to him. I hate to see so much HP on that boat.

Hi Aphers, Having designed both boats that you are discussing I thought that I would give you my 10 cents worth. I would definitely go with the Spindrift, the 10 or 11 will do everything that you want, but in a small loaded boat there is no substitute for a large footprint on the water if you can handle the extra weight. The 11 definitely has that. Having said that, I cruised full time for 10 years with a standard Catspaw 8 happily doing the job. It was okume ply with no glass sheathing. We were not large people and there was only two of us most of the time. She lasted for another 15 years after coming ashore. We loaned it to a lady who lived aboard, she lost it in a hurricane. It had a very hard life, always left out in the weather and had very little maintenance. That said she was a the end of her life when lost, it was no great loss. The 11 will be better motoring especially with a load. What I learned from that is that sheathing is not necessary providing that you have good strong gunwales and fendering. The keel had a metal strip and metal under the chines amidships which allowed me to drag the boat up a concrete ramp or over the edge of a dock by myself without hurting the boat. The lack of sheathing did not contribute to her demise. I like composite construction and both cores will do the job. With all materials thicker is better, as the core is light, it makes sense to choose the thicker 10mm versus 5mm core. Unfortunately there is not enough clearance in the sides to nest. The good news is that 5mm core with 10oz. glass on either side is stiff enough for the sides. The bottom core should be 10mm and will not interfere with nesting. There is a small issue to solve with using different core thicknesses which is where the chines near the bow are in plane.giving you a 5mm step to address. With foam, it is easy to just sand the bottom to suit. Nidaplast is an interesting core but you cannot shape or thin it. Because this is hidden behind the forward flotation compartment, it would not have to be pretty. You could do a taper with thickened epoxy when you are ready to glass the inside where the step should be. A 5mm core bottom could be stiffened with stringers but that would be more time consuming and be less efficient than the 10mm core. If using foam and you wanted to use 10mm core for the whole boat and you are up for a challenge, you could grind some foam away from the sides behind the nesting bulkheads to allow the bow section to have enough clearance to nest. The problem with cutting the boat before glassing both sides is that the hull will change shape and will not stay fair. I would still use laminated wood gunwales on a composite boat because it can take more abuse. I say that after seeing many gunwales rotted out because he fendering kept them wet. The trick is to use pressure treated wood. I do not know what it is called in Scotland but I am sure that it is available in some form.

Ken, I feel the same as you, I feel nervous if I cannot hoist a sail. You cannot put enough Hp on the Kendrift to be adequate for Rosie but a 2 1/2 horse kicker will move her in a calm. I have been planning to put my 2 1/2 off of Carlita on my OB20. I will do it over the next month or so and I will tell you how it goes. A couple of years ago I said to Alan after work on a pretty day " I want to burn up the rest of the fuel in the tank, wanner come for a ride". I did a good job of emptying out the tank. The trouble was we were over half a mile from home in the next bay. We might still be out there if it was not for a good samaritan who was the only boat out there. It was calm and the 2.5 would have have brought us home.

I would go with the 4 blade. There is no guarantee that it will be exactly the right size as it is still a bit of trial and error. Suzuki should have a lot of data on their props. I see that the auxiliary is a right hand prop which means that it will tend to turn the boat to port but with the motor rigged th port will tend to turn the boat to starboard. Therefore the two forces are tending to cancel each out. The forces will vary with rpm but it is all moot as you have vectored thrust so you will automatically cancel it out with your wheel. It might have an effect when you start to move from a dead stop so it will be worth experimenting in an open space. I look forward to hearing the rest of the story.

I checked the plans and the cockpit only slopes .8 of one degree. I trimmed the bow down from the stern WL .85 degree which gives you a bow down trim of 3" and a displacement of 2714#. It should take around 800 foot pounds to bring it to trim. Of course this is very rough as we do not have exact trim measurements. When I look at where the water meet the chine the boat shows it further forward than the trimmed down drawing. The boat could also be heeling slightly to the camera.

Aleksandr, You can do whatever you like in the bow section. It is only the aft section that is compromised because it has to have room to take the bow. I have built the standard side seat flotation tanks in the bow.

I have stated this many times that I prefer to leave my lockers unpainted. I like the look of the natural color and enjoy it when I open them. If there if any deterioration going on with the wood I will see it immediately rather than being masked by the paint, not to mention that it is one less job to do. I have never noticed that it is too dark to find my stuff. This is a subject where there are no right or wrong answers.

The cockpit sole is pitched aft 1 degree. That means that you are trimmed down by the bow a fraction over 1 degree.

Emvrin, Congratulations!!! You outdid yourself this time. You put the rest of us to shame with the quality of your work. She looks beautiful. You do need a larger prop with 6300 rpm at wot. Have you weighed the boat? Because the keel is straight and level as designed, if you can put a mark on the bow and maybe on the forward edge of the leg at the water line next time that you are in the water. You can measure down to a keel line extension back on land and we can calculate her weight and trim.

Steve, The hull panels are all 6mm.

Hi Cracked Ribs. There is absolutely no reason why you could not build an aluminum Marissa. It will be heavier, the CS17 built in Alaska finished out at 700# which is at least 50% heavier than a wood version. Aluminum size for size is about 6 times heavier than okume ply. As you suggest 1/8" is a good starting point, it will be about twice as heavy as 9mm okume ply. That is aluminum's finished weight for the shell whereas the ply has to be glassed, coated with epoxy and painted plus the fact that the framing can be less. Which will probably come out about 50% heavier than the bare Marissa hull but you are talking about a very light boat. An all welded aluminum boat is about as tough and as maintenance free as it gets. You are right, the Pacific North West is aluminum boat country, it seems that work boats are not built from anything else except for maybe tugs where weight is probably positive. CS17 hull #1 was built in aluminum in New Mexico, I got to sail her in Florida and she performed quite well. About a decade or so ago I was hired to take a 50 footer from California to Puerto Vallata in Mexico. One of the incentives for taking the job was that hull #1 was residing a short drive north of PV. I had a great visit with the builder who is one of my favorite people and hull #1 was living on the beach along with the local Panga's. The owner was still enjoying her, saying that she was the best fishing machine he had ever owned, he would trim her for a beam reach to sail herself and was totally stealthy as he trolled to and fro for game fish. He laughed that he usually outfished the charter boats burning hundreds of gallons of fuel a day. She had not spent a day of her life under shelter and I will bet that she is still going strong. The second CS17 built in aluminum was in Alaska,. Here is one of his posts on this forum. You can search for the rest of his build. He said that 6065 was marine grade aluminum which is incorrect. The 5000 series is the marine grade. 5083 is a popular but not the only choice. styge Advanced Member Members 0 48 posts Location: Juneau, Alaska Report post Posted February 19, 2007 The weight of the boat is around 700lbs. So you won't be dragging it up any sandy beaches, but it doesn't sound like that will be a problem. As for building one, it may be easier to get a guy who's been welding, (and in particular, welding boats) for a while. I thought about doing the welding myself, but I figured my finished project should probably not be my practice piece, that gets expensive. It was all I could do to keeps up with my guy. I was cutting and grinding and he was welding, welding, welding! But it turned out great. If you decide to proceed with it, online metal in seattle is great for souring the aluminum, and they were happy to deliver it to Alaska Marine Lines to get barged up here. I went with 6065, I think, its a good marine grand and is a little more pliable (which isn't saying much) than other better grade. I have originally thought I would just do the hull and fit out everything inside in wood, but once the project was underway and we had a flow to the build process, it just seemed (at the time) to make sense carrying on in alumnium. The panels were coming together at a rapid rate, and I'm not the patient type, plus every additional panel meant less maintenance. Right now the only wood to be found on the boat is the tiller! Anyway let me know if you decide to proceed as there are a few things I would have done differently were I to do another one. Regards Styge Smith Juneau, AK

Reacher, I designed the Walkabout back on the 80's. She is 22' long and is multi chine stitch and glue plywood. She was sloop rigged and has a lifting keel. There was only one boat built. Randy recently asked us to convert her to a cat ketch. We had one sail with the new rig. A few things were cobbled together to test how it worked out. We were well pleased with the change and have now made everything permanent and she is about ready to sail again. Why did we change rigs? Mostly convenience, the sloop rig was difficult to rig with the mast so tall and heavy. We had her rigged as mechanically convenient as we could but it was still a bear. The mast that we had was too heavy and made the boat a little tender, so one thought was to just fit a lighter mast. Randy has spent a lot of time in cat ketches and said "rather than just change out the mast, lets change the rig". She sailed well as a sloop and was nicely balanced, she won her first race. The lifting keel weighs 300# and has a 6 part purchase in the trunk that leads to a Harken winch near the cockpit forward. The two new masts are very quick and easy to raise and lower and stay permanently in their tabernacles, cutting down the rigging time substantially. I am looking forward to testing her out with everything properly finished. It is not very often that you get to sail the same boat with different rigs.

It is shaping up to be great Messabout. A lot of boats have already arrived.

Mathew, This is a problem which I do not understand. Growing up down under I could get all of the 6061-T6 that I wanted. Surely they still have need of a higher strength aluminium since they went metric. You do not mention the temper, T4- T6. The internet says that 6060 has similar yield strength to 6063 which is 2400 psi versus 40000 psi for 6061. Let us know what sizes that you can get, around the sizes that we specify and we will see if we can find a work around for you.

I am disappointed too. I was looking forward to seeing you in a couple of days as well as getting to see Skeena. There will be more Messabout's. You have to take care of business.

Oops! Yes that is definitely a typo. All the wall thickness for your mast sections are .065". I searched the plan files and found the error. The period ended up on the wrong side of the zero. I will correct it today. .065" is 16 gauge and is slightly thicker than 1/16" which is .0625". If you are building over in metric land, you might have trouble finding those sections. If your standard sections do not match the above corrected, find the nearest sizes and we will check that they meed the required specs. Make sure that it meets the 6061 T6 properties.

Yes, it is on the B&B Facebook page. It is the last weekend in October.

This is all good stuff and being forewarned is forearmed but I do not think that we need to get hysterical. I have capsized probably more than anyone here so you could say that I know something about the subject. If I was venturing far afield alone on a mk1 I would definitely have a mast float. I never capsized a 17 or 20 that was not a test even though I have had them in pretty bad weather. On a mk 3 it is still a good idea. I have singled handed Carlita a lot and been in some scary weather and never felt insecure. I have sailed her upwind with ballast, deliberately overpowered to see what she will do. As the boat heels over, the wind force is reduced but the righting moment is increasing all the way to about 60 degrees where it starts reducing. 60 degrees is huge and it would be a foolish skipper that did not reef long before. Typically it is hard to get her to heel much past 40 degrees while on the wind. On an open boat the down flooding angle is reached by 35 to 40 degrees which is easy to achieve as they do not have ballast. The exact downflooding angle depends on beam and freeboard and inherent stability but once you reach it is over. Down wind is the wildcard because dynamics play a larger factor. Any racing skipper knows, in heavy weather the gybe mark is where most boats capsize. This is because inexperienced skippers bring the helm up quickly to gybe and just when centrifugal force is heeling the boat to the max, over comes the sails adding to the heeling force and suddenly you have reached the down flooding angle and over you go. The smart skipper gybes before the mark by sailing slightly by the lee and holding a straight course, waiting for the gust to pass and pulls the sails over one at a time. He can now approach the mark with full concentration and easily dodge capsized boats and do a tactical rounding of the mark with the sails properly trimmed with no drama. For a cruising boat the downwind lesson is, reef early, reducing sail reduces wind force and lowers the heeling arm. Avoid gybing in high winds. If you have to gybe , do it carefully as described above. Avoid running dead downwind if you can. If you must, let you sails go forward of the beam by about 15 degrees which reduces the dreaded deathroll and makes it hard to accidentally gybe. Sailing in large waves also adds to the dynamics. Follow the paragraph above but reef sooner. Remember you are sailing one of the safest boats around but common sense is still required.

We just got power back on about half an hour ago. We had no real damage and have almost got everything cleaned up. I am sorry to hear about Steve's oysters but glad that he and boat are okay. I hear that highway 12, the only road down the Outer Banks suffered some damage. Speaking of oysters, how did you fare Oyster?

Wes, I think that you are in the ballpark. I have seen the boat and I can vouch for what Wes has said.

I just want to say that I had a great week of sailing and would like to do it again. Like Pete found in the Chesapeake, summer sailing means dodging thunder storms. As it is shallow most everywhere around here, putting the anchor out and getting out of it is a good tactic. You may get bounced around for a while but if you are boating, that goes with the territory. It beats not being able to go for a sail. Going with a group gives a purpose and it is good to share experiences with like minded people. There has been enough talk about using or not using motors. I have found that the motor is worth all of it's hassles. I could not have made my schedules without it. For instance Alan said as I was getting ready to leave "have you seen the forecast? 50% thunder storms and headwinds". I was rigged and ready, the thought of un-rigging, driving around a big loop to get there and re-rigging did not appeal to me. I motor sailed to the mouth of the Bay River before shutting the motor off and started tacking. I got one good squall before the wind shut down and I motored across the mouth of the Neuse River. I had to motor through the canals where the wind stayed light and ahead meaning that I motored most of the way. We sailed most of the OBX 130 but leaving Cape lookout we had 2 hours of tide so we decided to motor sail to Shell Point at the east end of Harkers Island. There were a couple of narrow channels with very shallow water all around and a strong headwind wind where we had to motor or get left behind. Coming home I motored through the Thorofare canal and it's approaches. The wind was foul and diminishing once I passed the Hobucken Cut in the Bay River. I could have anchored for the night but I was almost home. After I cleared the Thorofare Canal I put the anchor down and dropped the sails. I was hot, thirsty and hungry and I needed to get the wind vane set up for the open water crossing, so I had a lunch break. I came on deck to get under way and noticed that the wind had increased and looking to the west saw a big squall about to nail me so I went back below. Alan called to see if I was okay because my Spot tracker stopped moving and gave me the radar report that he posted. We could see that if I waited a while they would pass through. There was a smaller and final cell that was slightly further to the south that I might be able to dodge. The last cell was clear on the north side with a vertical wall. As my course was north, if I got going I might be able to get clear of it. I tried a new tactic for me, I motor sailed with just the mizzen. The wind was getting stronger as the cell got nearer, with mizzen and motor at a brisk idle I was doing a good 4 knots. With this rig I could easily drop the mizzen and tie it down without leaving the safety of the cockpit if the wind became too violent. It worked perfectly and I just cleared the cell, I could see the high rise bridge over the canal to the south get lost in the rain. After I got into deep water I had a wonderful sail across Pamlico Sound doing around 5 knots on a close reach. All of this motoring cost me just shy of 2 gallons of fuel.

Scott, It depends on what paint you are putting on the epoxy. If you are using two part epoxy primer you can put it on while the resin is green. If you are using one part paint it needs to be fully cured. Leaving the boat upside in the sun should post cure it enough to paint with anything once the surface is sanded and washed. If you want to be sure that your chosen one part paint is compatible with your epoxy you can do a test on say about 4" square. Do a control patch of the same paint on a non epoxy painted surface to see if they cure at the same rate. If they do not, they are not compatible. Do not be fooled by the surface skinning over, it is the the paint touching the epoxy that you are interested in. Interlux paints got sick of this problem and state that none of their one paints should be used directly over epoxy and recommend using an epoxy primer first. I have had good success with one part paints directly over cured epoxy but I prefer two paints for durability. I prefer to post cure epoxy glassed hulls in the sun before painting as it helps to prevent or reduce print-thru. That is the glass weave pattern showing through the paint after being in the sun for a while.

Joe, You can go either way. We are going to do the 234. If you go with Jay's jigs we can work with any adjustments you might need. I think that the headroom is not as mach as that picture suggests as Carol was off to the port side and the camera was off to starboard and lower than that center line beam. It would be easy to lower the cabin by a couple of inches once you can get a better feel for it.