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Weight I unfortunately still don't know. Will try to remember to get the scale on it next time I move it. Speed... Just a rough estimate from Navionics on the phone. If I had to guess, neither we nor the boat weigh much. Could also have been a bit of current or wind. I'll try to measure again next time I use the motor (probably awhile now as we're in sailing mode with the laser rig!)

Bumping to add to the firehose idea. Split type 1 size C euro firehose in half along the creases using tin snips. Sanded the inside with my permagrit block. On the (pine) gunnels, added 10mm thick self-adhesive foam rubber. Using contact cement and a plastic hammer, glued the hose all the way along (don't forget some extra gunnel on the transom). This has held up perfectly for several months of cruising. Doing it again, I'd blunt the bow a bit more and add more padding, as that's often the parking brake . I'm really happy with the glue solution as I wanted to save the weight (and effort) of hardwood gunnels and/or rot-proof fasteners, while still making it removable. Build thread has more photos

A couple other thoughts: I'm really glad I built the 11 and not the 9 or 10. The extra capacity, freeboard, and stability has been great and it's not much bigger on deck. We can sail with 2 adults and 2 kids, and motor with 5 adults And for future searchers: the Spindrift 11n nesting dinghy fits absolutely perfectly on the Sadler/ Starlight 35 foredeck, inside the (still usable) handrails, just forward of the mast and spanning the forward hatch .

Hi folks, updates on the sailing rig. As you know if you saw my pics thread, I used the design as a guideline, with apologies to the very talented designer. Most of my major modifications were around weight and the ability to use parts from an ilca rather than building them. Last weekend I had the chance to finally do the rigging. Currently, using a very old ilca 7 (standard) rig and sail. 0deg rake from the design, although I made my deck able to rake several about 12mm aft and 4mm fwd from vertical. Weather helm is reasonable, although the raked laser rudder is not ideal. Windesign rudder gudgeons through bolted with Sikaflex. All fittings on the boom, and most on the mast, replaced with dyneema strops. Vang and Cunningham now run down to the base and onto the daggerboard cleats. Major change was to widen the top of the daggerboard trunk and built it out of curved foam to take an ilca board. This was a pain and more or less requires vacuum bagging. The seat is omitted and I sit on the top of the trunk when rowing (perfect for me). Tomorrow I will swap out the 7m rig for the radial/6m rig and a new to me sail. Total cost: - 200€ std mast, boom, (very old) sail, rudder, tiller - 30€ new tiller extension - 90€ used ilca 6 mast base - 50€ used ilca 6 sail in great condition - running rigging left over mostly from other projects Yesterday I joined a snipe race without asking, in about 12kts of wind. I was significantly faster downwind, rather slower upwind. Still working on perfecting the vang and traveller, as these are quite important on this bendy rig. 10/10 would do it again, easy to find parts all over the world and more time going sailing

The Cleveland listing is mine, posted here in the classified also. Thanks for getting it noticed. My NF 15 is for sale also. Happy to field any questions Thanks Jim

That's funny--I'm two hours from Cheboygan, but drove all they way to near you to buy my Sea Pearl 21 from Steve.

Thanks Tim & Andy, certainly an option. My Shellback - researched, bought plans, assembled tools, cleared space in garage, one popped up for sale in Cheboygan Michigan - ten hours away. Sits in my garage now. So I understand what you are saying.

Aphers I was just checking in to see if you have recovered from all the chaos caused by Hurricane Beryl. Hoping you had a great holiday season, and everything is right in your world.

@Designer— Yes, Graham, I do believe it was my BRS15.

Maybe exercise them in the off-season? https://www.taigamotors.com/en/snowmobiles/

Tim is completely right--that looks like a really quality boat, and the dodger/tent/sails are incredible. Unless you really want to build, you should be all over this one!

jshaley if you are serious about a Core Sound you should get Steve W and yourself in a vehicle capable of towing this boat home and go get it. For this price you could do a lot of sailing very soon. If it's not the boat for you, you'd be able to recoup most if not all your money. If you build one there will be quite a time before you sail it. I hate to say it, but you probably won't recoup most of your money and you will not get paid for your time. I did a quick Google Map search, and it looks you would have a Core Sound 17 in your driveway ready to sail in about 10 hours. Safe trip!!!

Link to Facebook Marketplace CS17.1 in Cleveland. No affiliation with me. $7k https://www.facebook.com/share/Kkx8aoprqeSgkLLd/

Hi Tim! I don't use Craigslist directly. I use a site called Search Tempest. In the "What" section (top left), I put "core sound" in quotations. I think choose boats for category, and put in any distance. You can then open the tabs for all 8 sections of the continental US. You can also search Facebook Marketplace on there, though there are a few more steps. When I was searching for various boats a few years ago I had running searches I would do each day (eg, "Core Sound", "Welsford", "Vivier" "Norseboat"). It helped me find my boat in CO at a very good deal! I think currently Facebook Marketplace has more boats than Craigslist. A fun daydream activity is to use the search term "wooden boat", set the price over $250 to filter out the stupid model boat decor, and then move the search area to new england, florida, and PNW to see all the really cool boats there. Also, Sailing Texas is a great site. I haven't seen many Core Sounds there recently, but you can check their Sold page to see what's been on there.

Good decision. I was about to chime in after you mentioned where you sail. As you know, the Great Lakes have smaller waves, but they are steeper and come faster--not swells. For a non-ballast boat, these waves can come slapping at you and steal all your momentum. Worse, the pauses make it hard to set sails consistently. I think the extra two feet will really smooth out your ride in these conditions.

So my instinct is to pull the trigger on the CS17.1 after Graham's response, which is really icing on the cake of all of the other positive feedback (I really like icing). His note and Don's sundeck photo have really resolved any concerns about the CS15 being too lively. Turns out Steve W lives one town over and has graciously invited me to stop in, talk boats, and get a look at his CS20.3 Skeena - which I greatly admire.

I went back out to the boat on December 31 and checked the batteries. Bank one read 12.5 and bank two 12.6. Its been two weeks since I last checked and that seems fine to me. Bank one is the "house" bank and perhaps the LED's on the combiner switch draw a smidge of electricity. I plugged in the charger for two hours. I doubt a lot of charging happened at 33 degrees but hopefully every little bit helps. I will check them again in a few weeks.

It's so great to read Graham's notes. I had an additional thought about my upwind day vs the Scamp. I finally just dropped the sails and kicked on the 2.5. Suzuki outboard. The 17 went dead upwind like a champ, and really a pretty dry ride. I was amazed at how easy the progress was. I don't want js thinking he'll get stuck downwind on a blustery day. I also had a chance to try Graham's tips later, on an equally blustery day, but without the waves. Worked swell. One thing I learned was not to try to point the usual 45 or 50 degrees off the wind, 55 or so is fine and still gets you up wind.

I decided to jump into this discussion. Even though the advise has been excellent, I have sailed all of the boats under discussion probably more than anyone and in hard conditions. I have even sailed a Scamp with John Welsford as my crew. I was probably responsible for the pictures of the CS15 with lots of heel. When Alan brought the CS15 he built to our messabout, I saw him tacking in some gusty conditions. I videoed and shot stills of him heeling her way over. I then took her out and flogged her hard. There were quite a few pictures taken of that sail. I wondered when I saw them uploaded if they would have a negative effect. On the following Sunday after most of he boats had gone home I had the three fifteen footers I had designed BRS15, Lapwing and the CS15 sitting at the dock. The first thing was to test their stability. The CS15 was clearly the most stable with the Lapwing second. None of this was a surprise as that was what the original static calculations showed but it was good to check them as-built. Next we tested them under sail. The BRS with her smaller rig was the slowest. The other two have identical rigs which is a fairer comparison. I ended up judging them even overall but thought that the Lapwing had a slight edge in light air, it was the reverse in heavier air. When CS15 hull #1 was built, the owner left her with me for a week so that I could give her a thorough test. I was well pleased with her when I handed her over. When I designed the Lapwing I just put her hull under the CS15 rig. (Don, was that your BRS?) Is the CS15 tender? Definitely not. She does have a good size rig and should be reefed appropriately. You said it best. "So one of the leading attractions to the Core Sound line for me is speed. Not racing, but rather the ability to cover ground while cruising. I've read some of the accounts about the Everglades Challenge so the Core Sound can exceed my personal needs." It has always amazed me how the miles just seem to roll on by with the CS17. While the CS15 is not a tender boat, the bigger footprint of the CS17 makes her a lot more stable. There is no problem building from plans. As we ever update and improve the kits Alan has done a good job of keeping the plans up to date. The gear chine was a great improvement. I introduced it because I was always fussing at the chine trying to get it perfectly fair. Because of the transition of the chine joint starting as a butt joint transitioning to an overlap at about 20% aft, you were never sure how fair you got it until it was cured and cleaned up. The gear chine eliminated that issue. All you have to do draw up the chine ties tight and it is fair. Thousands of folded boats were made with out the teeth and thousands more will be built without it. I never will do it with out it. I can still recall when I put it first on a CS17 how perfectly it worked. Every time I went into the shop until it left I scan the chine and enjoy how fair it was. If I was in your position I would probably go with the 17mk1. It would easily fit under your weight limit. I dragged Carlita around 10,000 miles one year mostly behind a 1.9 liter VW including both ways over the Rockies. She is a lot heavier than a 17mk1. Whatever boat you choose, put on a masthead float. The tendency of all open boats is to invert after a capsize. When Charlie Brown asked Snoopy while fishing "what is the secret to life?" Snoopy replied "reef early and reef often."

I've sailed a couple of trips in company with a Scamp. I agree the Scamp is quite slow compared to the CS. It is also fairly complicated to build, especially compared to the CS boats. A couple of folks from a large a reputable kit-making concern that will otherwise go unnamed stopped by our volunteer shop and saw the Scamp that is underconstruction there, and has been for quite some time. One of them said, "All that work, and still all you have is a Scamp." I agree (and agree with similar comments above). I, too, have been attracted by videos of some of the other Welsford boats but those, too, seem like bigger contrustion projects than a CS. But I think all the added features probably make them very seaworthy. Attributes of the Scamp, at least as I understand them from the companion mentioned above: It has the little cuddy that helps make the cockpit into a snug one-person sleeping area, if you have right tent. It will chug on through anything, albeit at it's own pace. I have seen it recover from a capsize, and it was very quick and essentially dry, done by one person. A capsize in a CS is a different matter, speaking unfortunately from experience. The one time the Scamp really clobbered me was in a pretty fresh breeze, probably sustained >20 with higher gusts, and waves 1-2 feet, maybe a bit higher. My friend in the Scamp put in a reef and went plugging to windward without another care. I could not get to wind! I had put double reefs in both sails, and wasn't sailing the 17 very well, I decided later (too much luffing, not enough holding course). I think I would have been better off with a single-reefed mizzen in that breeze, sheeted in sort of half way. I talked to Graham later and got some tips. I think I will do much better next time. But that Scamp kept on plugging. My friend in the Scamp is looking at a Longsteps as his next build, so he's sold on the Scamp ideas, but would like something with a longer waterline and more speed. Wow, that came outlonger than I expected.

@Reacher— I agree with you regarding size. I loved my 15, but there is so much more space on this 17 I’m working on. I’m happy I made the move. @Hirilonde— I used a belt sander for the first time on my last build. I was amazed. It is on my scarfing tool list forever. @jshaley— When my bride sailed on my BRS 15 for the first time, she told me that it was the best boat we ever had. This is because there was no boom to duck under. Another factor was that there was no jib requiring her attention. This is her preferred sailing posture. (I made a platform for her to lounge on.) Scamps are cute little boats, and very capable for their size. What I don’t like is that the cabin is basically useless— you can’t sleep in it, so what’s it for? Wellsford says that it’s “for having tea”. (!!!) Plus, they are slow. I was cruising with a friend who has one. We were motoring down a long channel. I was on a (heavily loaded) Core Sound 17 mk3, and he was in his Scamp. I was using a Honda 5, and he a Suzuki 2.5. I literally sailed a circle around him! He was at full throttle, and I was at half throttle. Core Sounds are slippery devils. (Sorry for the unrotated photo.)

My recommendation is the CS 17 based on your intended uses. Disclaimer: I have not seen the 15 or sailed either the 15 or 17. But I have seen a 17 along side a CS 20 and was surprised at how much larger the 20 is in volume, and expect the 17 to be substantially bigger than the 15. Of the other boats you are considering I can only comment on the Scamp. For a couple of months I saw one under construction along side a CS 20 I was working on. It seemed to me to be a tough build in comparison to the 20. Quite a few are begun at Scamp camps where you come home with a bare hull, and many don't progress beyond that point. Builders who complete them do like them for their ease of use and seaworthiness. If you want to go that route you might seek out a completed hull and start from there.

Andy B, when you go on Craigslist what do you put in so that you find boats all over the country?

So one of the leading attractions to the Core Sound line for me is speed. Not racing, but rather the ability to cover ground while cruising. I've read some of the accounts about the Everglades Challenge so the Core Sound can exceed my personal needs. I know the 20 is faster than the 17, and expect the 17 is faster than the 15. Can someone share approximately what we are talking about? If I choose 17 over 15 in addition to space and weatherliness what can I expect in speed differences? Sorry - I should have included this earlier: I live in upstate NY and have ready access to small lakes, several canal systems which connect some of those lakes and Lake Ontario which I would consider coastal sailing. I have canoe camped Georgian Bay off of Lake Huron and have enjoyed sailing Lake Champlain. I am looking for a robust trailer sailor under 1k lbs (1750 towing limit). Docile enough for my non-sailing wife to enjoy daysailing and sturdy enough for my own multi day trips. I have boat camped out of a canoe, paddleboard and Shellback so am fine w/ rustic accommodations. I have gear to camp on shore but am also looking for onboard. Primarily sailing but would be good to be able to row/paddle and take a small motor (possibly electric) Other designs I am looking at: SCAMP (too slow?), Hitia 17 (too wet?), Walkabout (no motor), Navigator, Seil 17, W17 trimaran (Long set up), Oz Goose