Alan Stewart

Very true. Especially for "homemade sailboats" you're going up against the used small sailboat market which it flooded with old plastic boats that have nearly infinite lifespan and just keep getting recycled. I'm pretty sure every single Hobie 16 that is still sailing has changed hands at least 2 or 3 times for example. So you need not only someone looking for a used sailboat but someone looking specifically for a Core Sound 17.

I reposted this to the watertribe fb group. hopefully you get someone interested.

Jon, Yeah that is right. Chief installed a rectangular box in the aft end of the cockpit but decked over it until he was ready to cut it out for a mirage drive. I've never seen a mirage drive that was 90 degrees to the direction of travel though which would be nice because then you could sit on the side of the boat. They are all oriented fore and aft so you'd have to sit on the stern deck which is not ideal both due to weight placement and because the tiller would be in the way. Chiefs (not your) boat has the pivoting tiller but still something that would need to be worked out. Another problem with the mirage drive is the height, they're designed to go into the sit on top kayaks which are not very thick from seat to water and you're in a recumbent position. the mark 3 is pretty thick from cockpit sole to hull bottom and then you're sitting pretty high up so the angle and height of the foot pedals may be a problem. You can use a tiller pilot or pypilot or anything like that. They don't propel the boat so they're allowed. I have one of Seans tiller pilots to play with on my boat if I ever finish it. Working on an EC writeup now.

We did use but not a lot. We drop the sails in the marina once into CP1 so we used them to row to the dock as well as back out the entrance. We could have done that with a pair of canoe paddles probably. We also used them a bit on the way to gasparilla pass. Then next time was getting into Chokoloskee against the current and getting out Chokoloskee pass. That was the last time. Between we stowed them in the coamings. it's not too hard. you just throw the blade back and let it drag behind the boat and fish the handle into the hole, just don't let go! then slide it in. There was good talk about alternatives to oars at the finish though. A lot of the class 4 guys are so tired of dealing with oars. I think there is demand for something better. not sure if that's a pedal prop drive, hobie drive or what. I think a hobie mirage drive could be mounted to the transom with pedal station forward. That would allow it to fully kick up. I've seen a rowboat with a similar setup.

Good question probably not with rocks. Only sand and mud down here occasionally oyster beds.

Team Sail Future 3 mam team on CS-17 previously named Arjay.

Tomorrow we will shove off from the beach at Fort Desoto Park in Tampa Bay Florida at 8:30am for the 25th Everglades Challenge. This week has been a familiar whirlwind of last minute prep we have done many times. After gathering clothes, boat food and battery powered gadgets and receiving a steady stream of Amazon deliveries we have once again arrived at the start of the EC. With any luck we will successfully navigate Carlita to the finish once more. Rather than send out race updates on this platform I am going to upload short video race updates to the B&B YouTube Channel as long as we have cell service so make sure you’re subscribed! I’ll add them to this playlist so check back after the race starts. We also have a photo album which I’ll be adding to as we go. Below, walk along with me checking out all the boats on the beach this year. A favorite activity once your boat is squared away. This year we feel more prepared than usual. For the hardcore fans you can track us on the watertribe tracker or on raceowl. Join the watertribe facebook group or follow the watertribe forum. There is also a thread on the Messing-About forum and the Sailing anarchy thread typically tracks the Class 4 and 5 boats pretty closely. Carlita resting in the campground Carlita is ready to go and this year she has a new rudder. At last years Messabout she suffered some rudder cheek damage when Graham’s home made keel rollers on the trailer worked TOO WELL and she slid off the trailer way too fast. The rudder blade (with rudder up) slammed to the stop when it hit the water and twisted the rudder cheeks cracking them. We slapped some ply to the outside to get her back underway for Graham’s Neuse River Trip. You can see below the repaired rudder cheeks which while ugly were much stronger than original (thickness = stiffness). But for the EC we’ve rebuilding Carlita’s Rudder cheeks and rudder blade as the original was starting to get tired after a decade of sailing. Pictures of the rebuild are here. For an more in depth look at the Core Sound 17 Mark 3 rudder check out this 4-5 min segment of our complete 17mk3 Tour video. In it I discuss my preferred downhaul setup which is critical for shallow water sailing. On Rudder Failure: This is only the second time I've seen a B&B rudder have a failure in the 17 years I’ve been working with Graham and sailing B&B boats and I still have yet to see one fail from actual sailing or grounding. The first was on Erik's 20mk3 rudder blade which technically failed while sailing but it was later determined that the blade was damaged earlier when an Amazon truck backed into it. And this recent failure which you could argue could be replicate in rough seas but Carlita has seen quite a bit of those without incident. Nevertheless we did decide to increase the cheeks to 9mm ply for the rebuild. Rudder failure is one of the primary failure modes of small boats in the EC. Whenever I see a fancy new rudder design on the beach I think about all the rudders I’ve seen fail over the years. Broken pins, sheared blades, cracked castings, bent plates and on and on. Graham’s design has been brutally tested and passed over and over again.

oops Kevin is "Thatguy" and Mike Long is "Longshoreman".

Copied from the B&B Newsletter to kick things off here.... if you're not on the newsletter sign up here. With just 12 days to go before the start of the 2025 Everglades Challenge, paddlers sailors all over the country are making final preparations and rushing to become “experts in their craft” (just kidding Paula). Getting any boat to the starting line of an event like this is a massive undertaking and once your boat is on the starting line all rigged up with bags packed you often feel like it must be all downhill from there. Some years it is and some years it isn’t! With an overall average success rate of just 54.9% it all depends on what mother nature has in store and how well you have prepared to handle it. B&B has a very long history with the Everglades Challenge and the WaterTribe going back almost 20 years which you can and SHOULD read about here. The Core Sound 17 remains one of the best class 4 boats you could chose statistically for the EC with 10 unique crews finishing 14 out of 19 times for an overall average success rate over 70%. Check out the stats yourself here. This year we are happy to see how big team B&B is. Below I’ve given some background on everyone on “Team B&B” for the 2025 EC. This year there are six Core Sound boats signed up out of twenty five in Class 4. The full list of registrants can be found here. And don’t forget if the EC seems too overwhelming for you, come join us for the North Carolina Challenge in June. Core Sound 17 #191: First we have a new three man Core Sound 17 team (Team Sail Futures) Joe McClung aka Seminole98, Kevin Farrell aka Longshoreman and Mike Long aka Longshoreman are sailing Core Sound 17. I believe they are all new Tribers and we are looking forward to meeting them. They are sailing CS-17 #191 ‘Arjay’ which was launched in 2018 by Brian Forsyth who built her from a B&B kit. Photo below of ‘Arjay’ finishing first at the MASCF event in St. Michaels, MD in 2018 about 30 seconds ahead of the next boat. Core Sound 17 #385: Brooks Hall aka TheMapster is sailing Core Sound 17 #385 with new crew Marshall Bender aka SaltyGator. Brooks is a veteran triber now having completed two ECs in his CS-17 with Coastal. He also holds the 4th fastest EC finish time in a CS-17 of 2 days 21hrs and 22min in 2023. Only Graham in 2006 and Phil Garland and Dan Neri on their CS-17 Turbo in 2013 and 2014 have done it faster. The fastest being their run in 2013 at 2d 7hr 34min. Hull #385 was built by Fred Schultz and painted and rigged by the B&B crew in 2018. Photo from their finish in 2023. Core Sound 17 Mark 3 #385: Father and son team Michael and Brian Collins aka GreyBeard and ChefRamen sailing their yellow Core Sound 17 Mark 3. Michael has completed eleven ECs and Brian has sailed with him in six of them. Photos 20 years apart. 2022 and 2002. 20 years! geez these guys must be old! I also love this shot of Michael and Brian pulled off somewhere around Northwest Cape in the 2020 EC with Alan and his Dad in the background in Southern Skimmer. Apparently we had time pull off and do the laundry that year. Core Sound 17 Mark 3 #4: Next, Alan aka SOS is sailing again this year with his Mom Dawn aka SandyBottom in Graham’s Core Sound 17 Mark 3 ‘Carlita’ with Graham as shore support. Graham’s boat needs no introduction. Thanks for letting us take her out again this year Graham! SOS has completed ten ECs and 1 UFC. SandyBottom has completed twelve! Core Sound 20 Mark 3 #1: Scott Henderson aka WildBlue and Kilby Smith aka SkinnyGenes are sailing CS-20mk3 hull #1 again this year and have made some upgrades from last year including a new main tabernacle, rubrail and probably some other secret go fast mods they won’t tell me about. Last year they were neck and neck with my mom and I for the entire race and we narrowly eeked out a win in Florida bay when they went one way and we went another. I suspect they won’t let that happen again this year. 20mk3 Hull #1 was built by Doug Cameron and took shape at the B&B shop back in 2014. Picture below from last year sunrise on Chokoloskee Bay taken by me! Core Sound 20 Mark 3 #22: At is gain this year is also the three man team of Erik Dykema aka NowWeTryItMyWay, George Blaha aka CountryRoads and Ivan Bartha aka Yellowdog. This is their second year in this Dark blue Core Sound 20 Mark 3. Last year they finished in 4 days 13hrs and 46min putting them in fifth place in class 4 and one of only nine class 4 boats to finish out of twenty two who started. Sailing Canoe Amas hull #1: We also have an honorary member of team B&B this year Mark Cecil aka Misterc is sailing a Meade Gougeon decked Sailing canoe outfitted with some newly designed B&B sailing canoe amas that he will be using on his BSD rig. Mark has three EC finishes under his belt in Class 1 and Class 3. I am looking forward to seeing how these amas perform and may be upgrading my UFC canoe with a set as well.

Thank you for all the pictures and notes on the build. Looks like we might need to recommend those sheer clamp strips be 4 thinner layers in the plans to ease that bending. Otherwise looks like all is coming together well.

I'd be very tempted to go with an EP Carry motor. It's less powerful but has a number of advantages in this case (small Spindrift dinghy). You can take the motor with you pretty easily if you're worried about it being stolen. The motor is in the top not the pod so no worry about striking bottom and damaging the seal of the pod. Downside is the motor needs to be protected from rain/salt water. The prop is easily replaced and the bevel gear is easily replaced. Can use any battery even a very small one just what is needed. No need for proprietary bulky battery. I've never had the chance to try one but i think it would be ideal for cruising. Might not quite hit hull speed but other than that. I believe they also came out with a larger version recently.

You can track graham on his spot page here. Where is Graham? He did about 11 miles and sent in this picture of Carlita. He stopped at the cliffs and said that they really were 90 feet. From his pictures the river definitely looks a bit low and Graham mentioned that he had been scraping bottom a lot today. He’s got the centerboard up too so it’s seriously shallow in spots. He’s in a very windy section which will continue on Day 3 as he heads toward Kinston. He saw one other boat in the water near Seven Springs and asked them if they had any local knowledge on depth but the river is just plain low right now. He’s been actively dodging limbs and logs as well. His looks to be about 25% of the way there while his fundraiser is now at 58% Thanks again to you guys. Another view of the river from Graham: note the mud banks and obstacles in the water ahead. He noted that his battery was fully charged thanks to his 50W solar panel which he recently cleaned and his forecast looks great for the rest of the trip with highs in the mid 60s and lows in the mid 40s, sunny with the exception perhaps of early Monday. The satellite view shows some really interesting historical paths of the river where trees have yet to refill old paths the river once took. Huckleberry, Bucklesberry… I noticed that he would be passing a place called “Bucklesberry” tomorrow so had to look that one up. Neusenews.com Tomorrow Graham will likely make it to Kinston!

Yesterday Graham anchored out in the Neuse River at Goldsboro and this morning he set off down the river headed to New Bern. If you didn't get the newsletter about it be sure to subscribe on the B&B website (scroll all the way to the bottom). But you can read it here. https://bandbyachtdesigns.substack.com/p/he-said-hes-always-wanted-to-float Here is a link to his adventure website. https://www.sailingforparkinsons.org/ and a link to his Parkinson's Fundraiser for this adventure that directly benefits the Rock Steady Boxing Parkinsons Program. Go Fund Me Link. Below is a shot of Carlita setup for river rowing with sun awning installed above the masts which are raised up for easier access to the cabin and to provide use of the dodger. I spoke to Graham earlier today and he was just passing Seymour Johnson AFB and had multiple jets overhead as he passed the end of the runway. He noted that he was getting about a knot of current and rowing to keep centered in the river. He was also hitting bottom with the centerboard every now and then and dodging shallow spots here and there. He took along with him his micro folding dinghy which he is towing behind him so that he can scope out any difficult spots or row ashore to explore. He's got great weather. Here is a screenshot of his track from his spot tracker. https://maps.findmespot.com/s/MB2J#history/assets zoomed out

Hey guys, Thanks for posting more pictures here. To clear up the confusion, in the email newsletter right before the messabout that i sent out (through substack) i include a link to a shared google album (this one https://photos.app.goo.gl/tfSxy2mx7yhuqMLS6) suggesting that everyone could add their photos from the messabout to it. If you don't use google that's fine but I'm not even sure you need a google account to add photos to it. It's set to allow collaborators (anyone to add photos to it). To be clear, you don't have to do anything in the substack app or even download the app at all for that matter. That's actually why I chose substack for the new B&B newsletter precisely because everyone could just read the posts in their email and not have to deal with an app if they didn't want to. Not everyone uses this forum or facebook but pretty much everyone has to do email. You only need to mess with the substack app if you want to comment on posts or articles (participate on that platform) which many of the readers from SCA substack do. But again, not required. Working on a "messabout wrap up" post now and will include that link again there. I did get some builders who misunderstood though and posted just some random photos from their phone to it or their entire build album on accident so i'll probably turn off the collaboration in a couple weeks.

Not a 15 but this is a VERY nice 17. https://www.facebook.com/share/6xkMUMaQ9FyfRkY6/