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Request for Advice, Coastal Camp Cruising


Don Silsbe
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@mattp— I still prefer the central location for my cleats.  In lighter air, like I had yesterday, my hip was rubbing against the cleat, because boat trim dictates sitting more forward.  This is not ideal.  But it is a compromise I’ll make for camp cruising.  Plus, I love messing around with different things on my boat.  You can do this with a wooden boat, as long as you have wood filler and a little paint.  On a fiberglass boat, it would be a mess.

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Don I like the tent.

 

I am less than enthusiastic about your current sheeting system.

 

In the light air you tried the new sheet arrangement anything will work. You should attach the sheet to the sprit instead the sail. The sprit is the strong point and can take any load that you are likely to give it without misshaping that part of the sail. I just drill a say 5/16" hole vertically thru the aft end of the sprit, just forward of the pin. You can pass a 3/16" line thru the hole with a stopper knot at the top and an eye at the bottom where you can clip your snap hook. I like to make that pennant 12" to 18"long, so that it will be just short of being two blocked when I have the sheet on as hard as it can. This gives me that much more sheet length and lowers the windage and cg for practically no cost.

 

I prefer the sheet blocks back where you had them but with some quick disconnect for sleeping. The problem with your new system is that in a breeze you will end up with too much mast load and sail flattening when you need to point. This will not show up in light air.

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Thanks for the inout, Graham.  You make some very good points.  I did think about the sail flattening aspect, but thought that a flatter sail in a blow might be a good thing.  I’ll switch over to the wing nut solution.  
 

I like the idea of attaching the sheets to the sprit. I’m going to give that a try.

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Thrillsbe, you are right, the video is a nice winter treat for those of us who practice winter storage. This whole thread has been good for winter reading and dreaming.

 

You have me thinking about something more weatherly than a tarp and mosquito net. After seeing your tent set up I got out my CS 20 plans and a scale. I have just enough space between the transom and the mizzen mast for the tent. How are you supporting the filler boards between the seats? Did you buy the Kelty Late Start 1?

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Yes, it was a Late Start 1.  I like Kelty’s products.  They are a quality product, and this one was only $150 with tax.  I got it from Backcountry.com.

Forward of the mizzen, I have used the centerboard for support, on my wife’s “lounging panel” (see photo).  That was made from 6mm plywood, and has worked very well.  My cruising panels will be made from 9mm.  I need access doors that will weaken the forward panel.  That kept me from using “her” panel.  The aft area will be a challenge.  I think I’m going either with hinged, drop-down supports or a separate egg crate brace.  Time will tell.  I’ll share that development here, since you’re interested in that level of detail.

 

On the lounging panel, I used Dynel as non-skid.  It is effective, but heavy.  I’m thinking of gluing down a piece of nylon screening on this project.  Someone suggested that when I made the first panel.  It won’t absorb  epoxy like Dynel, and I don’t want to buy some non-skid additive.  I’m trying to be thrifty (for once), and besides, the screen idea is intriguing.

EC60917C-2165-4B00-BFFA-3EA88344BB86.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...

The cleats have been relocated inboard.  I used threaded brass inserts, to keep the underside of the seat clean (no wingnuts). Most of my time is spent building a wherry for a friend, but I’m getting my licks in on mine, too.  I’ve made the big cuts on a new forward panel, and plan to cut out my floorboards tomorrow.  I also added a Roger Barnes style tiller tamer.  The boat photo will have to wait.  But here’s a sketch from his book.

4BEFD0B2-2428-45C1-8667-788FA407A1E6.jpeg

05CFEF9A-17F0-4AEA-B1BE-FCFC1C5AA8F9.jpeg

A68563D3-A580-4D9A-A7FE-CF8C4AE04C60.jpeg

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Re the tiller tamer, I've used this method for decades and it works really well. Depending on your setup aft there is sometimes an advantage in not having the cross boat line perpendicular/directly athwartships. I attached mine to the boat inwales more towards the stern than the tiller eye to allow easier access to the motor and maximize use of the cockpit seat without removing the line (which I have on a snap hook). The shockcord allows for any minor variation in the geometry of the line. 

I leave the rudder on for towing and the tamer keeps it stable.

Cheers

Peter HK

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I am just now trying out a tiller tamer for the first time. For my trial period I started by tying it to the strap eyes I use for my traveller. These aren't even at the outer extent of the transom, never mind the sides.  It seems to work just fine angled that far aft. I tried this way for similar reasons as Peter and because I wanted to try things out before adding any hardware to the boat. Because I have to remove my rudder to fit the traler into my garage (20' garage, 19'8" total length Lapwing on trailer without rudder) I will need to undo one end of the line to remove rudder and stow it in boat. I am thinking a strap eye on one end mounted to the transom near side and the same, but with a jamb cleat for the other end.

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2 hours ago, Hirilonde said:

Because I have to remove my rudder to fit the traler into my garage (20' garage, 19'8" total length Lapwing on trailer without rudder) I will need to undo one end of the line to remove rudder and stow it in boat. I am thinking a strap eye on one end mounted to the transom near side and the same, but with a jamb cleat for the other end.

Actually you don't need to detach the cross boat line to remove the rudder/tiller assembly if, as in the diagram you attach the shockcord with a snap hook of some sort. Just unhook the shockcord and pull the line out of the saddle/eyestrap on the tiller. Having said that I knot one end of the line to a simple eye screw with a snaphook onto another eyescrew on the other side. Takes 5 seconds to undo.

Cheers

Peter HK

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here’s my rendition of the Barnes “Tiller Tamer”.

 

Tiller lock engaged:

189E1493-2150-40B9-AF4E-F574994A6640.thumb.jpeg.61e578b637bdd6bb5dbb6a7c95d6feaf.jpeg

The tiller lock looks the same when connected but not engaged.  There is simply no tension on the system.  Tension is adjusted at the clamcleat on the side of the tiller.  You can still steer the boat, if you have a moderate amount of tension on the system.  This allows one to make course adjustments without disengaging the tiller lock.
 

This is the tiller lock disengaged, and disconnected:

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The dark green bridle also unclips from the boat, if desired.

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Don,

 

Between your plans to sail-cruise with your open boat and both my sons’ interests in camping in a boat, I’ve developed an interest in trying to make my CS15 (Norma T) capable of supporting a small tent, likely in the back of the boat at seat height. 
 

My sense on my boat is that, when camping, the mizzen mast could be moved to the forward thwart position to get it out of the way (and both sprits could be raised up out of the way with my extra halyards) and some kind of raising floorboards or system can be devised to “fill” the cockpit area... making a large flat area from the transom to the forward edge of the mid-boat thwart (making a platform about six and a half feet long.)  That’s what it sounds like what you are planning to do. I’d like to avoid a permanent rail-support along the longitudinal bulkheads to hold raised floorboards (though that might actually be the best solution.)  I’m at least thinking about some alternative approaches.  My boat’s in storage right now so I can’t really devise a good plan yet (plus I’m working on my 15’ ski-boat build) but I’ll be reunited with the Norma T in about a month. 
 

I’m very interested to see what you finally devise with your Local Honey for your sail-camping adventures. 

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  • 8 months later...

I am about to start Chapter Two of this camp cruise setup.  After two nights aboard at the 2021 Messabout, I’ve decided to abandon the one-man tent concept..  I’ll list the disadvantages below, even though I listed them in PadrePoint’s thread on this subject.  
 

Long story short, my tent has been sold to a Boy Scout friend.  He got a great deal.  I’m buying more coated rip stop nylon, and I’m making a full boat cover.  This could get interesting, or it could be a disaster.  Time will tell.

FFFE6D2B-42CD-4536-BF95-5180B14165E0.jpeg

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This is what I learned from sleeping two nights with my BRS15 camp-cruise setup.

1.  Doing this in the rain would be miserable.  All my cooking was done outside, unprotected.  And the tent would get drenched by taking it up or down.  At very least, I need more towels, to sop up the water.  And maybe an awning.

2. I did a lot of crawling around on my knees.  Not ideal, when you’re over 70.

3.  With the tent back that far, it would be difficult to fire up the Suzuki, and make adjustments to your anchorage.

4.  Access to my “stuff” was limited.  The starboard seat hatch was easily accessible.  Accessing the port hatch required exiting the tent, and crawling around the forward end of the tent to the port side.  If I had bought a tent with two doors, this would not have been a problem.  
5.  All my cooking gear was under the starboard side of the forward panel.  That was OK, but not ideal.  The tent and sleeping stuff was to port.  The yoga mat ended up being as hard as a rock.  
6.  I did not capsize, but I took on a lot of water, motoring upwind and back to the shop.  My gear remained “dry enough”, but made me think more about waterproof storage.  I had purchased two small dry bags at Cabelas on the way to the messabout.  They kept my clothes nice and dry.  If I plan to go out for more than two nights, I need more of these.

7. Most importantly, this trip taught me the value of organization.  The first night, I anchored & made camp across Chapel Creek.  I could not find my phone anywhere, and my bride was expecting me to check in with her.  I motored back to the dock (see note #2 above), to look for it in the truck.  Nope!  Finally, Sean, the guy in the trimaran called it.  IT WAS RIGHT WHERE I ALWAYS PUT IT!  It was in a little pocket at the aft end of the c/b trunk.  But that was beneath the elevated floorboards, and not too accessible.  Duh!  So, the first night of “camping” was at the dock.

 

Sorry for the long epistle, but I learned a lot on this trip, and wanted to share my lessons learned with y’all.

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