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I'm gonna make it!

OK, so it looks like this project is done. The boat floats and does not leak. Sails look very nice. Thank you all for the support. We folded the boat on Sept 2024 and finished in July of 2026.

In case you're not on our newsletter, here is a link to the info on our race. Much to my Dad's chagrin I thought it would be super cool to livestreaam our race from the boat so we're going to give that a go! Wish us luck! https://bandbyachtdesigns.substack.com/p/everglades-challenge-2026-live

Haha. This year we didn't bring a spinnaker or oars. We were up to the wire getting the boat done and wisely I think prioritized the windvane getting done. So far we wouldn't have used a spinnaker much def not required. We thought oars for this boat would be too ungainly since the coaming is so high bet we are rethinking that. The mirage drive off the transom really didn't impress. We didn't even bring it. Our only mode of aux propulsion is 2 stand up paddles which works quite well especially if you do it from the low side the coaming is narrow and its easy to do a normal stroke and the heel brings the wayer closer to you.

I still haven't produces a video from my epic trip to Maine last summer, but here is a sneak peak! Skeena is such a great boat. 42.mp4

Nanocruising, a small podcast in Canada contacted us about doing an interview about the Core Sound 17. Graham shares some history and insight into the design. Good job Graham! https://www.nanocruising.com/

Some more pictures; attaching the strakes Mounted wheels ( pneumatic 10" casters) under the strongback so we can pull it out to paint- will replace the casters with two trailer axels, one front one back, first time out of the narrow ass shop! wow! its always so much bigger when you can step back and look at it from more than 5 feet away. Topsides are ready for epoxy primer Bottom needs to have the strakes faired in and high build sprayed Spray Pettit epoxy primer Apply Pettit Black Widow bottom paint Flip it and move on My real job keeps slowing me down- and it was brutally hot this summer

@Andy Woerner Please introduce yourself to me. I’ll be there with my CS17 Windependent.

My name is Derek. We live in Orlando Florida, and have 6 kids (two grown and married, two in college, two in high school) and two grandkids. That’s the important stuff. I’m an electrical engineer and I work on graphics and AI chips for a big computer chip company. Always wanted to build a sailboat; but we lived in Colorado for 15 years and parenting took priority.

I told my parents they should take their boat to Raid Erie but then we got to thinking hey we could actually do it too. So we're registered! so now I MUST finish my 20mk3 and they're going too. And I see already Erik is going in his 20mk3 also Niels Wade with his P22 and Andrew in his CS-20. Here is the participants list form March 10 posted by Eric Miller the organizer. Paul was there last year.

I posted some pics on the Raid Erie Facebook page, but here is my Part 1 report. It started out bad. I was going to leave early Thursday to get there, but my trailer brakelights failed miserably. The copper wire was like dust and I wound up rewiring them with a cheap kit just so I could go. I didn't arrive until 2:30 in the morning and I didn't want to drive into the park we were supposed to meet at so I drove to the Marina, parked, jumped into Skeena and went to sleep. The bass fisherman were at it by 5:45, making for a short night of sleep. I went into town, got a few groceres and then went to the Thursday night gathering place and met a few sailors who were still there. The launch site was moved to Catawba Island Stat Park, and so I headed there next. As I pulled in I spotted Paul and Dawn and Alan and Taylor's boats and pulled up near them. They were partially rigged, but I got to it and rigged Skeena as quick as possible. As a preface to a theme that would continue throughout the weekend, I was quite amused by Alan and Taylor's boys, aged 3 and 5. I had two the same age apart, who are now all grown up, and it was a great reminder of how much energy they have. I was the first to get into the water and I headed straight to Middle Bass Island, not waiting for others. My thought was to take a quick nap when I got there, but that wasn't to be. The forecast was for dying wnds, so away I went. It was a better sail than I imagined it would be until the wind diminished near the end of MBI. I hadn't had a shower and it was pretty warm, so I anchored and took a nice swim. A few sailboats came up on me and we all sailed into the park. I hadn't remembered my slip number so I docked and walked up to the admin building and they directed me to the D Dock. I got Skeena tied up and after talking with other attendees for a bit, The Stewart's two CS20.3 showed up and they two were on the D dock. We all eventually went to JF Walleye's restaurant for a nice late lunch and I was blessed to be allowed to tag along with such a fun family. Again, those boys were a hoot. Later we looked at other boats in the Marina that were obviously part of us and met many other Raiders. Ted had his CS17.3 next to mine and it was pretty awesome to see so many Mark III's. To sweeten the moment even more, I saw Pete McCrary's Chessie make an apearance. Pete was building Chessie while I built Skeena and finished way faster than me. I flew to the Messabout and Chessie was the first Core Sound I had ever sailed on. I know Peter would have been happy to see here there. Ted and I got a chance to talk for a bit and he was kind enough to arm me with some excellent Steven's Point beer from Michigan. Highly reccomended if, like me, you enjoy beer flavored beer. In the Evening, we (by now I felt like a part of the Stewart family) made our way to the Lonz Winery for dinner and a talk by Colin Angus that was entertaining, although a bit long. By then I was exhausted and I left a bit early and went to get some sleep. Somewhere in this writeup I should mention that this whole area was beautiful in a "I can't believe this is Ohio" way. I plan to be back. Saturday Ted had left before I awoke. We had a loose skippers meeting and the three Core Sound 20.3s decided to head to Kelleys Island for a swim and the meet up with the others at Manila Bay on North Bass Island later. I'm sure we covered the most ground that day. I was happy for that because I haven't sailed Skeena much this year. We had a great upwind sail to Kelleys, other than that Paul fell behid due to a technical problem with his centerboard. It was sunny and warm, and I was and still am intrigued by Alan and Taylor's Bimini on Yacht Dog. We anchored in shallow water and I waded in. It was a nice but short visit with lots of boat talk, and then we were off to North Bass....

Boat is done! Well sailable and campable. Outboard didnt work well so trolling motor it is. The outboard well sucked or rather it was a real drag. So i had to make a quick and dirty filler to make the stern more streamlined. Fingers crossed. Stopped at Little Beaver state park overnight. Well be at the campground at the launch by end of the day today.

My two cents: A. I have a staysail for my CS 17 Mk I. I've had it up in anger twice, once on the EC and once up north. 1. We put it up in light air on the EC and it added a knot on a DDW. My buddy didn't realize I had left the halyard unfastened and pulled it down when the wind came up. We didn't end up restringing it and never had cause to use it again, so didn't restring. I have since added some stopper knots. 2. I was solo on a long downwind run in light air. I was resolved to sail it. I thought, why not. I pulled it out, rigged it (lots of fuss, and Steve noted) and, lo and behold, my speed went up. I even jibed it! But I had plenty of time and plenty of room. So, I would add it for the EC, but consider it a light air sail. B. I was expecting to do the EC again in 2027. Seeing the success of some Core Sounds with spinakers in 2026, I went ahead and got a used Javelin chute on ebay, and a pole, and pole fitting just above the mast step on the main mast, and plan to put a double block (halyard and topping) lift high on the main mast, and maybe a down haul. Two turning blocks low on the main. I got a 7-foot pole from Forespar. I figured this would definitely be a light air rig only. There is plenty of downwind power in the two standard sails for anything beyond light air. Based on some driveway sailing, it looks like the chute would set well to wind of the main mast. Well, now it looks like my crew and I won't make the EC 2027 after all, so I don't know if I'll ever fly it. But that was the plan. Maybe on a light air day this summer I'll get to try it out. The photo is when I did a trial of the chute tacked in place with duct tape. The mast seemed to show no ill effects. Again, I stress, light air.

I wanted to report back that the Suzuki 2.5 long shaft on the fixed bracket worked great for me on the Texas 200. The motor performed well in over 200 miles of sailing. We used it about eight hours. We would typically get 4 or 5 knots at fairly low throttle. We only motored when we couldn't sail 3 knots. The motor would run about an hour and twenty minutes on its 0.9 liter internal tank. We had a squall come up the last day and dropped the sails and motored into a headwind of 15+ gusting 25. Waves seemed about 3ish and we made progress of about 2 knots at full throttle. This isn't a "normal" every day use for me but good enough in a pinch. If you regularly use the motor in storms, I'd consider more horse power but it'd be overkill most of the time. Some care has to be taken when tacking that the mizzen sheet doesn't get tangled in the motor but it wasn't too bad. The break-in period is over and I'll do the second oil change. I did a preemptive first change after the first hour and half break-in at home in a water filled garbage can.

Thank you. Yes I hope so. Nothing else to glue on. Next just smoothing it out and priming.

Hey Jonathan, Yes we'll have kits and plans very soon. just have to get a couple of pesky powerboat jobs off my plate then i'm all over it. How much space do you have. Send me some pictures and measurements so i can check in the 3d model what if anything you'll need to do space wise. it'll probably fit. I like Andy the autopilot and Walter the windvane. My Dad had fun with Phil and Dwane the brothers that control the ballast tank.

That Hallberg-Rassy money needs to get you something. Reminds me of a story from the summer of 2024. I had Skeene in Southest harbor, ME. Took my 2 gallon gas can to the Marina gas pump where a new Hinckley powerboat with 4 huge outboards was taking on 100's of gallons of gas. The guy from Hinkley asked me if my boat was the Core Sound which I confirmed. He pulled the nozzle, put it in my gas can, pumped two gallons and told me he loved the design and was sure me and my friends were having the most fun in the Marina. I tried to pay, but he wouldn't let me. I like my hatch boards.

Alan, I want a windvane! I also know a boat very similar to mine that has one that seems to work very well. When you get done screwing around in Florida , we need to talk. I've been staring at the live feed for far too long with my head tipped sideways in amazement. Take Care, Steve

I have been amazed how little Alan and his Dad have touched the tiller. That wind vane sure works!

Thank you. Me too. I agree about the 80/80, in fact I'm not sure there ever really is a finish, but continual improvement. On to the next part.

After the exterior is glassed the hull will be flipped upright and the entire jig removed. The interior will be glassed. Interior bulkheads will be plywood. The deck, house, all exterior structures will be foam core.

Last coat of epoxy over glass. Let is set for a week before barrier coat.

Some good info there in past threads. I've added my 2 or 3 cents below. The best thing to do is take your boat out and try stuff. Be prepared to realize that the procedure is different depending on the conditions. A handheld GPS is super handy for see what works best for heaving to and not losing ground. The gustier the conditions the harder it is to keep the boat parked and stable. In all cases the main sheet MUST be completely free and loose and in all cases you have to decide which "tack" you want to heave to on. Port (wind coming over the port side) or Starboard. Pointing directly into the wind isn't heaving to. If you sheet the mizzen in, let the main out and then just let go of the rudder your likely to have the rudder swing violently over to one side as the boat chooses the tack your going to be on for you and begins drifting backwards. You can damage the rudder doing this especially if you don't have rudder stops. It's essential to have a way of locking the tiller (rudder angle) in order to heave to effectively in all conditions. I usually raise the CB when heaving to but it depends on conditions. Raising the CB allows the boat to slip sideways which is a good thing when heaving to. You don't want the boat to get going. you want it to drift slowly perpendicular to the wind or drifting slightly downwind on one tack or the other. Light wind easy sailing flat water 8-12 knots. Round up and sheet in the mizzen all the way (not crazy tight but fully sheeted). Then decide which tack you want to be on and let the main sheet out and give the sheet some slack (pull some slack out for it). Head up into the wind and let the boat speed drop to zero. Once boat speed is zero you can push the rudder over to the "lee" side. About 20 deg or so but not on center. If you just lock the rudder on center then you'll start drifting backward very fast 2 or 3 knots just from the wind pushing the boat backward. You don't want to lose ground that fast or have that much flow over the rudder backward so rudder always needs to be off center. You'll be drifting backwards very slowly or not at all if you do if correctly. The boat will "hunt" about 10 deg or so up and then down. As it falls off and the mizzen catches some wind the boat will get a little energy and squirt forward and as soon as it does and there is some flow over the rudder, the boat will head up just a bit and the mizzen will luff allowing windage to take over again and the boat will slow, stop, and fall off again. Cycle Repeats. If you want it to be a bit easier drop the mainsail all together and reduce some windage on the bow. Reefing while Heaved to This is how you "stop" the boat to put in the first main reef. When you do however you MUST NOT pull the mainsail "in" or you'll bear away and start sailing. You have to recognize this instantly and let it go or better yet you can control the boat by holding the main sail. Push it away from you to bring the bow back into the wind, pull it in to prevent the boat from tacking and knocking you overboard. If you have the reef lines led aft like the 20mk3 then you can do the reef without influencing the main sheet angle at all. Higher or very gusty wind. I've found that in higher wind or very gusty wind that can quicky switch directions by 10-20 deg. It's better to let the mizzen out just a bit (not sheeted all the way in) so that the boat parks at angle further "off the wind" say about 30-40 deg off the wind. Especially if you haven't reefed the mizzen. I also lock the rudder further off center. Having the rudder further off center makes that boat react sooner to a gust that hits the mizzen and having the boat sit slightly further off the wind makes it more resistant to a gust coming in from a different direction. If you have the sheet in tight and rudder just slightly over that boat will sit perhaps only 20 deg off the wind and a gust can cause the boat to tack. If the boat tacks you've got to change the rudder to the other side. In higher winds and chop if someone is "going forward" to reef the main then the helmsman should be careful to keep the boat just off the wind and stable for the crew. If alone, you've got to keep an eye on the boat's state when you go forward and touch the mainsail so as not to cause the boat to bear off or tack and push you over the side if you're caught unaware. You can never have too much situational awareness on a small boat! In very rough conditions it may be easier to reef the main by dropping it entirely and then doing what you need to do rather than standing on the foredeck if you don't have the main reef lines lead aft. Raising the rudder? If you don't care about drifting backwards at all then let the main out, mizzen in and just lift the CB and rudder out of the water. In light wind the fastest you'll drift is the wind speed directly downwind and you don't have to worry about being on one tack or the other. I rarely do this because I think you can just as easily park the boat and not lose ground by keeping the boat plodding along as described above with rudder just off center.

Upon revisiting this thread, I realized that I never posted photos of the permanent installation. I glued in new Okoume panels on each side, including openings for storage and Armstrong hatches. I opened up the forward floatation/storage area. While I was at it, I move the oarlocks and seat aft to level the boat for better rowing. I repainted her interior with two-part polyurethane. Finally, I added the Bermudan rig with a masthead float. The little masthead float worked like a charm.

Looks like another great time! Sorry to miss the raft-up, those are always a good time. Kalos was at the Madisonville Wood Boat festival again this year (that why we missed the Messabout) . She again got first place for sailboats. With the amount of drones in the air I am quite certain there will be YouTube videos soon.

Our group was up in the Apostle Islands at the northern tip of Wisconsin in Lake Superior this past week. We had amazingly good weather and amazingly light breeze. Altogether I sailed about 71 miles over 6 days, which includes about 10 motoring miles in the light air. I was the only Core Sound, and, um, I was speedy. Slept on the boat every night. I ended up sailing along with buddy John in his Scamp (thus his appearance in the sunset photo), although our group started out with 13 boats and 15 folks. A couple pix follow.

I need to recognize the photographer who took the great photo above (the first one). It's always challenging to get pictures of your boat under sail and Amos Swogger did an outstanding job a few years ago when we sailed together in the Pamlico River. He shared it and I am using it in multiple places since it is such a great view of a CS20. Thanks, Amos !

Yes there is a lapstrake version. If it was me I would build the lapstrake version without the laps. This turns it into a multi chine hull. The main reason is that the chines are flush allowing you to glass the outside of the boat making a stronger and more durable hull. The Lapstrake is traditional and handsome, I think that multi chine also looks good. Our building method gives a nice fair hull fairly quick. Jay has completed his second multi chine hull and was pleased with the ease and fairness of the build. He may chime in. In the meantime you can look at his build of the looper and Matthew Flinders on this forum. I have completed the updates and changes that I wanted. The next move if anyone is interested is for Alan and I to go over every part of the design together so that the second pair of eyes may spot any errors, omissions or conflict. He will then part it all out, and nest all of the parts into sheets and create the tool paths

Well, it's finally happening. Started the boat in 2016. Then we converted over to the taller 2018 version. Worked hard on it for 2 years and even launched the boat briefly at the 2020 messabout and slept aboard at the dock. Then I thought it was happening in 2024 https://bandbyachtdesigns.substack.com/p/raising-boys-and-boats-its-finally but the boat turned into a table again. (funny how fast that happens). So 10 years it is. Henry is 5 now and heading off to kindergarten in August. James is 3 and we're all going to Raid Erie event at the end of the July. That was the catalyst for finally finishing our Core Sound 20 Mark 3. Below, the boys helping vacuum out the cabin. So using proper boatbuilding technique I've waited until just a few weeks before to finish it. Photo album is here which I've started adding to again. https://photos.app.goo.gl/22Tfg2WR5pTSBHyw1 On the list.... Glue down cockpit sole Install Tabernacles Build masts Build Centerboard Build Rudder Paint Hull, deck, cockpit and cabin Rig the boat Sail the boat Put boat on a new trailer. Maybe get dodger built Maybe pull a wind vane out of a hat I copied what i did on Graham's rebuilt 17mk3 rudder and installed integral pex tubing for the up and downhaul in the rudder cheeks which worked well. Tabernacles are assembled and ready for glass.

First sail of 2026! A Father's Day treat, all kids (and wife) on board! With the older ones leaving the nest this fall, this might be the last time this happens, so I cherished the day for sure! Also, I didn't raise or lower a mast, I never touched the tiller, and the one time I adjusted a line I got a scolding from the captain I've either reached peak Dad-mode or I've become obsolete, I'm not sure which! If you're wondering, yes, the CS-20 mark 1 can handle 7 passengers in moderate winds. No one even needs to touch anyone!

I've locked down the registration process to require Administrator approval, rather than allowing registration using Facebook, Google or other social media "validation". I think the social media logins, which I've allowed since 2015, are responsible for the rash of spammers lately. We'll see. Anyone who has partially registered and not received confirmation yet, please email me at fshagan@gmail.com along with your pending username and I'll manually approve you.

I like the series of telltales up the leaches of the sails. If they're all flowing, upwind or on a reach, I feel the sails are well-trimmed. I put a windex on the main mast for longer trips. The mast swivels, so it's not necessarily reliable to use the arrow against the tabs for relative wind, but at least it gives some usable info on changes in direction.

I think we may have SEVEN B&B boats coming!!!!!! Me (Andy) CS-20 mk1 Alan CS-20 mk3? Alan's parents CS-20 mk3 Steve CS 20 mk3 Ted CS 17 mk3 Erik Princess 22 Niels CS 20 mk3 And Don is coming, on foot, though if you know Don any one of us will be glad to have him as crew. He's knowledgeable, kind, has good food, and most days smells alright If you are on the fence, join us!

Well weve been doing it every year just not always a trip report. But last 2 years weve been in the 17mk3. yes the windvane is quite happy to steer in any wind above about 3 or 4 knots of apparent wind no problem. So far we've probably hand steered less than 10% of the time.

It's been quiet on here lately, and many of us haven't seen our Core Sound boat since we tucked it away for the winter months ago. Let's share some photos of 2025 with your boat to warm our hearts (and maybe to spur some work on those winter projects). Here are a few from me. These two are from a sail in Muskegon, Michigan, with my father in law and his brother. It wasn't the best sail ever but one I will remember and treasure because of the company. The giant freighter going by was a bonus!

Didn't mean to confuse. When i said i raise the main at the dock that would be after raising the mizzen. In other words I usually always raise both sails at the dock and then sail away and if my main is going up my mizzen is already up. Mizzen up first always. I never have my main up without the mizzen up. You're depowering order is exactly correct with the slight sidebar that.... The ballast tank should always be filled when sailing the 17 or 20mk3 UNLESS you have the mast head float (which I know you do) which makes it an option to sail sans ballast. Or to put another way, I'd say that the 17 and 20 mk3 were always designed to be sailed with ballast since you can't effectively "hike out" (and you're not meant to) and the decision to make that ballast water ballast was in order to make the boat lighter for trailering and launching/retrieving. You can absolutely sail with just the reefed mizzen we've done it lots. Works great on a reach or any downwind point of sail. In a pinch it works upwind too in strong winds but you have to carefully mange the weather helm and keep the boat speed up and it likely won't work in very choppy conditions. https://smallcraftadvisor.substack.com/p/double-enders-vs-transom-sterns Below a picture I took from the North Carolina Challenge. Great conditions for 2 finger sailing down long wind swells with double reefed mizzen.

I think I posted this before, but I do like it (photo credit Diane Gallo):

December has been so busy that I only got to this yesterday. Great listen. Graham, Alan, and the B & B team has brought me a lot of joy over the years with hopefully much more to come. Happy New Year to all!

I just enjoyed the podcast. Graham provides a good mix of technical thought in design and practical considerations such as the cost of keeping a boat. When the interviewer asked about future trends in small boat design I thought, “here we go, a foiling Core Sound!”, but he must be keeping those plans under wraps.

In the past, we’ve discussed improving the floatation in Graham’s nesting boats. To complicate matters, I like sailing on my backside. This summer, I’m doing an experiment. I’m adding some removable floatation tanks to my Two Paw 8. They’re made of junk plywood, and might last one season of sailing. But it will allow me to evaluate their effectiveness. Two Bits won’t get wet for a few more weeks. But this is where I am today. This is where they’ll go. Held in place with two screws each. And they can come out, if they don’t work out. Now, they need fillets and lids. Next, some sanding and paint.

I used 6mm bs1088 Okoume as my deck was bs1088 Sapele. A couple minutes in boiling water made bending it into place easy. Clamped it in place and let it dry, then epoxied it in. I specifically ordered 2 sheets of Sapele for my deck and transom. I am a huge fan of Sapele. But kiln dried is very hard and even steamed does not bend easily. It could be laminated into place, tedious to do, but would look great.

Pictures from the Messabout. Feel free to add if you have some! The weekend flew by. Writeup to come. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ot1AimxV9mwmcFGd6

And you! I won't make it to the messabout this year. The extra trip to the Bay sounds great and I wish I could make it, but we have some extensive travel plans later in Oct/Nov, so I'll be putting the boat away. Hope you make it and have a great trip.

I was planning on arriving Thursday, but I could probably swing arriving Wednesday. Then sail Bonner Bay Thursday as well as Sunday. Poor boat hasn't seen much water pass under her keelson this year.