CS17 #370 Peggy-O

[LennieG]

Used some 12 oz Biax glass today to cap the leading edge of my rudder. It nearly disintegrated....just pulled apart on me. Went through a couple steps of discarding what I had and wet down newly cut pieces, placed them on the edge gingerly but still had challenges of it pulling it apart. Eventually got it on there but it was less than whole. I drenched it in epoxy a couple times after that but don't feel it was the right choice for me or I did something wrong. Did my product breakdown in storage or just bad choice for this task? Would appreciate your input so I can understand what I have learned.

Thanks

[Mike Vacanti]

It might be the biaxial was too heavy. A lighter weight (6 oz?) might conform to the radius better.

[Peter HK]

Are you sure that was biaxial knitted fabric? It looks like that was woven cloth with the way the fibres shifted although the pics are a bit blurry. When doing an edge with woven cloth the piece needs to be cut on the diagonal (45 degrees) when it will conform quite nicely and the fibres will stay together better.

I can't imagine knitted biax falling apart as it's held together by the stitching.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Howard]

Actually, from a distance, that looks like mat, which is more of a filler than any type of woven cloth.

 

Can you post a picture of the cloth itself........before it was wet out?

 

Edited: It might also be 1208 biaxial, with the light mat backing, but somehow got installed with the mat side out?

[LennieG]

Yes, will do sat. Thanks and happy holidays.

[LennieG]

Deck on and trimmed . Much easier than I thought to trim, particularly after I stopped worryin about going too far with the router where the deck to side angle less than 90 degrees. Did first half with much hand planing, second half mostly by router and it was a breeze.

The deck installation is certainly one of those big milestones that is visually pleasing.

Forgot to take picture of the 12oz Biax but will Monday. There is a great lamination jig thread on woodenboat forum for anyone thinking about laminating, as I am with coaming.

[Dnjost]

Would love to know more about your plans to laminate the combing.  I admit to being undecided as to how I am going to do this part of the build.  I have quite a bit 1/4" Okoume lying around, but am considering doing something cool such as 3/8" steamed mahogany.  Probably a crazy idea.  

[mattp]

Have you decided how high above deck to make the coaming (combing maybe)?  This is a detail I wish I would have done slightly different, though it will be easy enough to modify.  Ours is about 3/8 around the sides and a little higher forward.  If I were to do it again, I would have the lip just barely above deck to make it a little more friendly to my behind while hiking out.  All you need is a little bit to keep water from running into the cockpit.  I realize now that an extra 1/4 in higher has negligible effect on the amount of spray coming in but a large effect on comfort.

[LennieG]

I plan to laminate solid mahogany. It sounds a little indulgent but there is something about solid wood that interests me ( despite knowing that there are a lot of great looking boats with plywood coaming) plus I am out of ply so just as soon spend the money on solid mahogany. Plus I want to try my hand at laminating and bending wood. The supplier of my hardwood and fir is a high end door manufacturer and mill work place and they wil prepare whatever thickness I need. I have seen many of their mahogany archways that you would swear is a solid piece of wood but in fact it is laminated. I bought some dye for the epoxy. They tell me that if I bring a traced section of the front of the boat they will tell me what thickness I need so it will bend without breaking or steaming, then they will mill it accordingly.

I plan to buy a cheap piece of 1/4" ply tomorrow and play around with templates to determine size, style, height, length, then cut the mahogany prior to laminating. I agree with you Matt as far as deck height on the side decks. I need the extra width there as well as went I little short on that versus plans in order to get my fat butt into the cockpit. I went an inch narrower on side decks than plans but will pick up and inch and a quarter with rub rail and coaming. I plan to go higher in front middle (up to 3") but then trim the coaming down after it makes the turn going aft so the main sheet gets into the cockpit without going over coaming. Fun fun fun

[Hirilonde]

I plan to laminate solid mahogany. It sounds a little indulgent but there is something about solid wood that interests me ..........

 

That's more than enough reason.  That fact that you can is reason enough.  Aesthetics, especially bright work is one of the best things about building your own boat.*

 

* disclaimer-the above comment is purely subjective and the opinion of the poster

[LennieG]

Don't know if I was clear and made some typos this am. Plan on 3" coaming front center, but neat flush on side decks.

[Dale Niemann]

I could be wrong but I seem to remember Graham saying about one of his boats he was going to completely flatten the combing aft of the mainsheet cleats where you sit when hiking out. He was tired of sitting on the combing. I feel about the same.  Don't know which boat or whether or not he did it.

This in fact is one of the things I am considering doing with 'Lively' but have not decided yet.  The way I see it is I have three choices: 1. leave it the way it is with about half inch of combing sticking up and a very small flat piece outboart of the combing about 2" by 6" which accepts the rear oar locks, 2. flatten the combing out to level and get rid of the rear oar locks or 3. Increase the size of the wood housing the oar locks so it would leave about a 1" wide channel next to combing for water to flow through but cover the rest of the deck just aft of the mainsheet cleats. Sorry my memory is so bad about terminology but cannot remember the name of the part that receives the oarlocks or the mainsheet cleats.

 

I would appreciate any opinions on these choices.

 

dale

[LennieG]

Dale-

I would take your guidance on this as you have built a great boat, sailed it a lot etc

The rest of us are guessing. I do know you told me when I visted you that you wish you had a "pad" to sit on...

So I know your coaming is too high in itself. It looks higher than 1/2" to me

See picture.

I was thinking 1/2" would be reasonably comfortable to sit on, but if no maybe 1/4" would work and help a little with water flow......?

[Peter HK]

I made some hiking seats for mine.

 

 

They do make hiking more comfortable but not completely comfortable.

They are tapered and rounded and at the inner edge are the same height as the coaming, about 3/4 inch.

If I were to do it again I'd make the inner edge of the seat a little higher than the coaming as currently I still feel a little pressure on the back of the thigh where the coaming is and I don't get the full comfort benefit of the rounded inner edge of the seat.

 

They do keep the crew weight in the right position in the middle of the boat though.

 

Cheers

Peter HK 

 

[Dale Niemann]

Lennie, you are a very astute observer.  I went out to the garage and measured.  The combing rise above deck is 3/4" along the sides and 1 3/8" in center forward. I was just guessing before.

 

Peter, I knew there was somebody on this site that had done the butt pads but I had forgotten it was you.  I did not realize you put them forward for your crew also.  I was not planning on doing that.  I figure without them it will just keep my crew tough. Thus, one of the reasons I usually sail alone.  Thanks for giving us the details.

 

I think right now I am leaning toward making them flat all the way back from just behind the main sheet cleat.  I only remember one time when water came in over the combing.  It was the only time, so far, that I almost capsized her. I  released the sheet got lucky and she immediately righted herself and saved me. If I flatten it out, I will also remove the aft oar station.  I cannot use it without taking the mizzen mast down so I have never used it.

 

dale

[LennieG]

The jury is in....appreciate the input from several of you, and I spoke to Graham today. I can't find anyone who has raised coaming around the side deck and likes it. Graham said Alan kept his Southbound coaming flush with deck with good results. He also made the point that if you do 1" raised coaming it does no good with 2" of water. I am paraphrasing but his point was, yes, you get some water but you will in any event. So, I am going with flush coaming to decks. I am playing around with euca board (also known as pegboard without the holes) templates. It gives a nice perspective on what the end results might look like. (1/4" plywood breaks at the bend, as does 1/8" Luan plywood.)

Also here is a picture of the 12oz. Biax as Howard asked for....

Thanks again

[Dale Niemann]

Lennie,

Glad you talked to Graham.  That helps me make my decision also.

 

You did not say, are you raising it on forward deck?  I think it looks nice up there and may keep some splash out.

 

dale

[LennieG]

Yes Dale- moving around the template, 2 1/2" feels right in the center with decreasing height towards the corners but will sleep on it and play with it this week. 2 7/8" looks good to me on side decks as of now, all at or below the deck.

See if you can access Southbound on Alans blog, or if he doesn't mind I will post his boat picture . Nice clean looking boat. He did some interesting transitions to flush on the side deck and a wooden, slanted line organizer (in place of bulls eyes) between the corner and the side deck, if that makes sense.

[mattp]

If you are sailing in the rain...and you are heeled enough that rain water runs off of side deck into cockpit...then a raised side coaming could help.

So, it might stop 2% of water from coming in 5% of the time but increases butt soreness by 92%, 40% of the time.

Of course, it's easier to bring flush than to raise after the fact.

[Peter HK]

The only 2 reasons I can see for the coaming to be above deck height are;

1 Aesthetics- I think it looks better

2 To keep rain out of the cockpit when camp cruising- otherwise, even with a cockpit tent, rain will track from the foredeck down the side decks and onto the cockpit seats and wet everything. This really only applies if you are trying to stay/sleep/cook etc onboard which I have not yet done (but intended to when I put the coaming on). So far I've always camped on shore with a tent rather than sleep onboard.

 

Lennie - that cloth looks like chopped strand mat with a cloth backing- not something I'm familiar with.

Cheers

Peter HK