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lenm

Ocracoke 20 in OZ

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Happy new year to all.

 

Some update pics..

Local regulations here require a 'builders plate' for vessel registration - which required me to engage a marine surveyor.

Also, a condition/integrity certificate (for future insurance purposes) and buoyancy (going with 'Level' category flotation rather than 'Basic').

 

Happily she has passed 1st inspection!

 

Taking my time to make sure everything is well and truly 'waterproof' such as transitioning any penetrations/screw holes to solid fibreglass..

 

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Its nice to finally have the sub floor glassing finished -  seemed to take thrice as long as I initially anticipated. SMcormick did warn me about this though :-)

 

Discovered a great epoxy product for finishing the bilges.   It flows/levels out nice and even and has 100% opacity with a single coat.  Application is with a regular paint brush.

 

Started shaping the foam buoyancy  - a Neolon type foam as recommended by surveyor - a closed cell foam with chemical resistance and fire retardant properties.

I cut the edges in a corrugated pattern to help promote air circulation around the foam and compartment ventilation.

My current boat seems to get a lot of condensation and water vapour in the underfloor compartments.

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It is my understanding that foam-filled chambers promote rot more than sealed empty ones.  Have you discussed this with Graham?

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">Website
  • LocationHendersonville, NC
  • I like your ".. cut the edges in a corrugated pattern ..."  From years of repairing fiberglass boats, I learned that moisture almost always manages to find a way under the floor. Poured in place foam traps the moisture where the foam eventually breaks down where it contacts the hull. The best way to prevent problems is to cut block foam to fit, Even better is with the edges "corrugated" as you've done. Then be sure the compartments are ventilated. Even sealed, empty compartments will allow moisture to somehow get in, but at least they don't trap it against the surface. Be sure to seal the backside of the floor (sole) thoroughly, too, before you install it.

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    Hi Thrillsbe,  as you mention, possibly a foam filled chamber is more prone to damp condition (and hence rot) than an empty one?

    Unfortunately air filled chambers do not qualify as buoyancy over here (the authorities want foam in certain quantity and location)

     

    Thanks Chick for your thoughts.

    Regarding your comment about ventilation are you referring to limber holes or inspection ports? 

    Personally I am a bit reluctant towards sealed compartments which are inaccessible and un-inspectable. Just don't know what's going on in there. Would it be outrageous to put an inspection port on every chamber somehow? And possibly 'vent' after each trip?

    Would need to be done carefully so as not to detract the look of the deck.

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    Very nice, good to have that part behind you.

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  • LocationHendersonville, NC
  • 16 hours ago, lenm said:

    Hi Thrillsbe,  as you mention, possibly a foam filled chamber is more prone to damp condition (and hence rot) than an empty one?

    Unfortunately air filled chambers do not qualify as buoyancy over here (the authorities want foam in certain quantity and location)

     

    Thanks Chick for your thoughts.

    Regarding your comment about ventilation are you referring to limber holes or inspection ports?  

    Personally I am a bit reluctant towards sealed compartments which are inaccessible and un-inspectable. Just don't know what's going on in there. Would it be outrageous to put an inspection port on every chamber somehow? And possibly 'vent' after each trip?

    Would need to be done carefully so as not to detract the look of the deck.

    Foam is required here, too. I leave generous sized holes through the bulkheads that separate compartments, limber holes at the bottom corners, and at least one hatch open to the outside. A screw out plastic hatch is fine. It's also good to have a transom drain that any water can drain out of. I always keep my boats on trailers, so I can remove the transom drain plug and open the hatch(s). Anything to get air flow.

     

    The USCG requires "upright and level" flotation. Placing all of the foam spread across the bottom tends to make the boat unstable when it is flooded. It is prone to being capsizes in the waves. I built fiberglass boats for a living and had to have them tested to be sure that they complied with the flotation standards. I found that I needed to leave a section down the middle of the boat without flotation. There was plenty of room left on either side for the amount of foam required to meet the standards. A benefit of this was that it left the area most prone to water penetration free of foam that would otherwise block drainage and ventilation. It's also good to add foam under the deck to help with upright flotation if you have room for it. A book could be written on this subject, but I think this gets the idea across.

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    Thanks Chick, you have me sold on ventilation.

    I am supposed to place flotation as shown below for certification.

    This configuration seems to be similar to how you have described.

    flotation plan.png

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    Hi all.

    Interested on hearing anyone's thoughts on laminating deck beams with fibreglass.

    Is it worth all the extra work and weight or just coat timber with epoxy?

    I'm not looking for strength - just maximum protection from water ingress.

    Thanks

     

    15521083510981768325332.jpg

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    I almost always glass for waterproofing. I can laminate one layer of 10oz cloth instead of 3 coats of resin and I think it provides a more consistent, dependable thickness.  Of course adding glass comes with a small weight penalty.  E-glass has a specific gravity of 1.99 and resin 1.18, so at a 60/40 resin to glass ratio there would be a X27%X (came back and read, actually it's only 21.5%) increase.  But at 0.017" thick, I don't see it as significant.

     

    https://www.westsystem.com/products/compare-epoxy-physical-properties/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiberglass

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  • LocationVandemere, NC
  • What we are trying to achieve is to create a vapor barrier over the wood. Epoxy is the best vapor barrier that we have but it is not 100%. As with all vapor barriers thicker is better and a layer of glass as Steve mentioned is a guarantee of an even thick coating. However I subscribe to the three coats of epoxy for everything above the bilge because I think that life is too short for that level of detail.

     

    While playing musical motors with my OB20 that Chick built more than a decade ago I decided put in a new larger fuel tank under the cockpit sole. I cut out a long narrow section of the sole which gave me a perfect opportunity to inspect an almost impossible area to view. Fortunately Chick did not paint over the epoxy so that I could see in an instant that there was no discoloration anywhere under the cockpit. There is no glass anywhere except at the chines and transom and stringers but there looked to be about three coats of epoxy over all of the wood.

     

    The bilge area has not been well treated over its life as there was plastic hatch in the outboard well. It took me a while to find out where that water in the bilge was coming from. I got rid of the hatch and put ply cover with caulk over the hole. I always parked the boat bow high with with the bungs removed but the boat often spent a good while in the water with no way to ventilate the bilge.

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    10 hours ago, Designer said:

    ... life is too short for that level of detail.....

     

    I try to tell myself that.  In fact, I started to clean up the sole of my build a week or so ago and started with the attitude of "it's a walking surface and will have non skid on it so I'm not going to put much effort into fairing it".  Didn't last too long before I had the long board on that too.  I know myself, if there is one thing out of place in the finished product, I will have to look at it every time I use the boat and berate myself for not addressing it.

     

    Who's the smarter man, the one who is playing with his boat or the one who is still sanding it 3 years later.

     

     

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    Having perfectionist tendencies, I find this pretty interesting.  It is so easy to make our builds hard.  The motivation to build our own boats is pretty complicated sometimes. Is it to save money?  Nahhhh, we know that is a delusion. Is it to get out on the water and have pride in what our efforts created? Maybe. Is it to work out some psychological disorder? For me sometimes I think so.  

    After having a serious life changing event in the middle of building ROSIE, I have given all of this a lot of thought.  When I got out of the hospital my first instinct was to head to the shop and look at my boat. I had cut a bunch of parts before I went down for the count. When I got up to the shop and couldn’t remember what the parts were for it gave me pause. Were they really that important. Later, I came to my senses, my memory returned and of coures they were!

    Anyway,  I realize how ephemeral all of this is and is perfection really serving me. We all know that to get that extra 2% improvement in quality might mean 20% more time. I guess it comes down to how you want to spend your time. My current mantra is “PERFECTION IS THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD”.  I have to constantly remind myself of that when I fuss over something for hours that won’t be important in a month.

    Ken

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    Having perfectionist tendencies, I find this pretty interesting.  It is so easy to make our builds hard.  The motivation to build our own boats is pretty complicated sometimes. Is it to save money?  Nahhhh, we know that is a delusion. Is it to get out on the water and have pride in what our efforts created? Maybe. Is it to work out some psychological disorder? For me sometimes I think so.  

    After having a serious life changing event in the middle of building ROSIE, I have given all of this a lot of thought.  When I got out of the hospital my first instinct was to head to the shop and look at my boat. I had cut a bunch of parts before I went down for the count. When I got up to the shop and couldn’t remember what the parts were for it gave me pause. Were they really that important. Later, I came to my senses, my memory returned and of coures they were!

    Anyway,  I realize how ephemeral all of this is and is perfection really serving me. We all know that to get that extra 2% improvement in quality might mean 20% more time. I guess it comes down to how you want to spend your time. My current mantra is “PERFECTION IS THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD”.  I have to constantly remind myself of that when I fuss over something for hours that won’t be important in a month.

    Ken

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    My problem is the OPPOSITE of perfectionist tendencies. Trying to reconcile the two extremes was the reason for my little essay on How Good is Good Enough. For me, it comes down to doing my best to do it right the first time, fixing it if it'e TOO bad, and walking away from it when it's done, but without taking extra time fussing with it. But, let's not start the debate all over again. Now, I gotta head to the shop to finish some li'l projects on the Old Codger. Quickly.

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    It's the psychological disorder Kenneee.  You just threw in the others to cover it up.

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    Chic- I want to be more like you IF I grow up.

    Dave, don’t get me wrong, I enjoy my madness.

    Lemn, back on subject, your boat looks beautiful!

    Ken

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    Hey Kenneee, why grow up, I never did!

    Lemn, ...what Ken said. It looks REAL good!

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    Hi all,

    Many thanks for the comments and nice to hear everyone's take on custom  boatbuilding.

    Incidentally I read a great book the other day -  It suggested  the answer to life's problem are usually found somewhere in the 'middle' - not at either ends of the spectrum.

    I couldn't help think about how this relates to boat building and obsessing over certain tasks.

    Perhaps putting the tools down when things are 'good enough' is the best ethos as Chick mentioned 🙂

     

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