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Chick Ludwig, February 27, 2015 in B & B Yachts Forum
Well y'all. It's almost time to start my new boat. As you know, we spent a lot of time fooling around on a CS-15 Mk-3, but finally decided on the 17. Alan says that the kit should be done in 2-3 weeks. I'll drive down to pick it up, so won't need a shipping box.
There are a few things that I want to modify and a few questions. just so you guys can join in with suggestions right from the start. By the way, I'll be using a tabernacle for the mizzen too as i'll need to lower the rig with sails attached to go under bridges. I'll mostly be single handing.
Here is what I sent to Alan in a message. The Master is out of town for a bit, so I'm dealing with the Junior Master.
"Here's the things we talked about today. And some we didn't.
1. Cooler needs to fit through a 10" x 16" hatch opening. Maybe use 2 hatches on one side of the boat? Open to suggestions.
2. Don't need shipping box, but do need the plywood cradle parts. Are dimensions of the spacing for these on the drawings somewhere?
3. Need to know height of foot of mizzen to allow a Bimini top to clear it. Height above coaming would be best, but from sole, seat top, or other measurable spot on boat.
4. In addition to regular hardware, I'll need: 3-4" deck cleats, 2-chocks, opening ports. is the hatch for the ballast tank included? I'll need it. Reefing hardware and lines if not included. Extra bulls eye fairleads to run all lines from main mast to aft end of cabin top. Could you make me a couple of the "one-legged wing nuts" for the mast "holder-upper" (couldn't think of proper nomenclature) bolt?
5. 3/4" stainless hollow back rubrail and keel strip, and 1/2" strip long enough to go from bow eye to under bow to join 3/4" keel strip.
6. Carla said she'd get the sails on the next order, but I forgot to tell her that I want "sausage" bags for them so I can leave the battens in place.
7. Would you have a couple of short sections of mast tubing to use to align the tabernacles? I don't have ceiling height in my garage to use the actual mast sections. Or is there a p.v.c. pipe size the same?
8. I would want to be able to open the forward hatch to raise/lower the main mast, I guess I'll need to make a sliding hatch as there wouldn't be enough clearance to lift a regular mast with the mast down (?) Any thoughts on this?
I guess that's it for now, but I'm sure i'll have more to bother you with later. Thanks for your patience! Stay warm."
McMaster Carr has nuts called "easy grip" nuts (their p/n is 3577k6) that are stainless steel nuts with one arm. I am ordering one for my CS20.3. About 15.00 bucks.
We are toying with the idea of a hatch between bulkhead 1 & 2 offset starboard to tend the anchor, raise the main mast and such. Should eliminate some of the trips to the fore deck. Some sidewalk engineering on our CS20.3 a 22x22 hatch will fit, leaving room for the main mast to be raised. Then shimmy back through the hatch and install your gourmet easy grip nut to retain the mast bolt. Steve and I had discussed a "double ended hatch system", but the word "leak" keeps coming to mind!
I plan to protect my skeg with a slurry of carborundum power in epoxy. That is the active ingredient in sandpaper, hard as heck to drill or grind. I have used it on hih wear areas before and they are no longer hi wear areas! I didn't bed the screws in the skeg on my 2paws dink and that is the only area that I see any rot, this idea may eliminate several issues ( or make some)!
Jay, thanks for the info on the nuts.
I definitely don't want to have to go on deck to handle the mast or anchor. I hope to do it all through the forward hatch. The anchor will be on a tilting chock on a bow sprit. Interesting thought about an offset hatch. Let us know how it works. Not sure what you mean by a "double ended hatch system". I intend on a regular companionway hatch and a sliding forward hatch. They probably would be on the same hatch runners. There would have to be a kind of a short "dodger" over the forward end of the forward hatch to keep water out. (There is a name for it--I just can't think of it now. Cover, hood, garage,...???)
I don't see a lot of structure forward for a small anchor roller, so I am pondering a very short sprit with a small roller on it. I have seen a lot of damage done with improper mounted anchor rollers.
If a fellow had the trench type hatch way with a slide on both sides with 2 identical hatches one forward, one aft, separated by a sea hood type of arrangement, the forward hatch slide aft under the sea hood, or the aft hatch slide forward under the sea hood. Only one hatch at a time can be opened. But I think it would be leak prone on the forward hatch, and might not be enough travel on the slide to make any difference.
I think we are considering a flip up type main hatch, similar to the one you built on the Outer Banks 20, Maybe with a mid bifold? Your thoughts?
Ahhh, sea hood. THAT's what it's called. I see no need for a sea hood for the companionway hatch, and just a very short one--just long enough to cover the first couple of inches on the forward hatch, to keep spray and rain from blowing under the front edge . Until I get the kit, I won't know if both hatches can open at the same time. There will not be a trench going the length of the top. I won't have the plywood knees to support the top either. I'll build the cabin top the conventional way with carlins(?) along the joint between the top and side, and cabin top beams. just my preference for a more traditional look. I also don't see the need for a mid hatch at all. No need to stand up in the center.
As for the anchor roller-on-a-sprit, There probably will need to be a sturdy beam added at the front end of the cut-out that lets the foot of the mast flip up. You're right about the stresses from an anchor.
I personally would rather have a traditional style sliding c'way hatch. Only reason for the flip-up on my O.B.-20 was that there wasn't enough room for a sliding hatch without a lot of complications in building a built in sea hood to extend under the windshield. It's tough to build a bi-fold hatch that doesn't leak. A production boat that I was involved with years ago, the Skipper 20, had one and it had lots of problems.
Hey, we all gotta do things a little different. That's what makes it fun. And we're all SO opinionated...
You can get a PVC tube the same diameter as the lower mast section, but it is not available everywhere or at the big box stores. I had the same height issue and further I built my mast early in game so had a twenty footer to deal with inside limited height. I found the PVC at Ace Hardware, it had flanges on the end which I cut off. If you need a # off of it or a size call me today and I will get it for you.
239-273-2234. As I recall it is 2 1/2". One 10' section gave me the two 5'ers I needed ( but
I know you are good with numbers and could have figured that out)
What is this one legged nut for and is it desirable for reg cs17?
Raising the mast - initially, you'll have to walk it up. I attach a snatch block to the bow and use the halyard to hold it while I push the bolt through. With a standard companionway and forward hatch, you'll need to figure out a way to manage this transition.
If Graham needs to cut a different sized hatch, tell him now.
Hardware for the ballast tank was included in mine, but I can't remember if I requested it. (screw-in hatch, plug, Andersen Bailer)
The plans should include positioning and assembly of the cradle from 2 X 4 and 2 X 6 stock. Have them cut the particle board so that it is exact. This is a lot easier than forming the boat around the bulkheads and temporary stations like the Mark I.
Lennie, thanks. I'll get to you about the size soon, but I'm heading out for the day now with family. The one legged wing nut is the one that screws onto the bolt that projects through the foot of the mast when it is raised in it's tabernacle. It keeps the mast from falling down. If you have a mast that drops into a mast tube, and don't have a tabernacle, you won't have this nut.
Doug. I'm hoping to be able to raise the mast from the forward hatch. It's smaller than the CS-20 so will be lighter---but I'd better make sure. Anyone out there willing to stand close to the mast on their 17 and try it for me? The only cutout for a hatch in the kit is for the c'way. They'll cut the cradle frames (bulkheads) for me. Usually they are on the shipping box lid, but I'm not getting the shipping box since I'm picking my kit up with the parts loose. They'll all fit in my van.
Thanks guys, keep it coming!
I picked my kit up at the Messabout and it came with the 3 cradle frames were cut with the CNC machine. I imagine it would be a cat fight wrestling the panels with out!
Doug, do you think your main mast could be walked up in the cockpit and the second person in a hatch finish raising it? Think it is too heavy?
I want to ask twice, measure 3 times, cut once!
Jay, two people could raise it with ease. With one person in the hatch, you would have a short lever arm to push a long arm. That's why I use the snatch block (you could use a carabiner) and a regular block) and halyard to hold up the heavier CS 20 mast. I guess you could also braze or epoxy the bolt in place, but it would still be difficult to bend down and put the fender washer and one-armed nut on the end of the bolt while holding the mast up.
Chick, I found your gourmet nuts: http://www.mcmaster.com/#easy-grip-handles/=w4c4od. Fancy-schmancy! I love it. I'll stick with cashews and nylocks. (Yes, I have a weird sense of humor, but I'm OK wIth that.)
Don, you're a funny guy. Actually, I prefer boiled peanuts straight from a cast iron pot, but that's only because-----I'm NUTS!
Actually, I prefer boiled peanuts straight from a cast iron pot, but that's only because-----I'm NUTS!
Peanuts are legumes, but I won't debate you on being nuts
Well y'all---it's finally time! Just got back from the coast and B&B with my kit. I bet you thought it would never happen!. I'll be starting Monday on the "module". What's that you ask? Well, just wait and see...
Many thanks and much appreciation to Rick and Minnie. (Y'all know them as ricknriver.)for a tasty dinner and use of a bed while I was down there. They've got a beautiful place right on the river---I'm SO jealous.
Here's a picture of my old van all loaded up. Got home and pulled into my driveway with smoke pouring off one wheel. Durn brake calipers locked up as I was heading in. Spent the rest of the afternoon at the repair guys.
Congrats on getting the kit! Look forward to your build and the entertaining updates I know you'll provide.
Let's all start a pool as to when Chick launches. We could offer up a tool or a boat building book we no longer need to the winner of pool.....the winner is the person who names the date closest to the actual launch.
I will say March 9, 2016.
Heyyyy,can I enter? Sounds like fun. Anyone want to donate a joiner for a prize? I I kinda want one.... No, wait, I don't have anywhere to put the durn thing.
This what I had i mind to contribute....a vintage 1976 craftsman scraper
FINALLY!!! After several days of "life" getting in the way, I finally got a start on "Summer". I planed my 4/4 poplar boards down to 3/4", cut a batch of cleat stock, not forgetting to radius one corner, and cut the cleats to length for the "cockpit module" Hey, that reminds me of the space program back in the 60s---"command module", "lunar lander module". Great glory days for the good 'ol USA. Tomorrow (Good Lord willin' and the crick don't rise.), I'll glue all of the cleats in place. While the epoxy is curing, I'll drag out the hull sections and get them ready to join at the finger joints. And Scott is bringing me my new, almost completed Spindrift 12. I'll finish it up in between operations on Breeze. Gotta have something to sail while building the CS-17, don't ya know. It's gonna take awhile to build Summer Breeze, y'all.
I can't say enough good stuff about the awesome kit, plans, and assembly manual that Graham (The Master), and Alan (The Junior Master) have produced. It makes it sooo easy to build a boat---especially in the itty-bitty space that I have to work in now. As it is, I gotta move everything between operations to have room for each one. Ohhh, how I miss my big shop back in Havelock!!!
Below are a couple of pictures of the luner ---oops, I mean, cockpit module, ready to glue the cleats on. Sorry about the poor quality of the pictures. I'll try to do better.
Well, here's another picture that ya gotta lie on your side to see...
Aw Chick, get a grip. I would love to have that little shop. My BRS 15 gets to be built in an OVERHANG, not even a carport!
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