Randy Jones

Will, Access to the bow storage would be painful via the bulkhead. I have a wooden box style watertight deck hatch that sticks up about 3 inches. It does hurt the look of the boat but it is absolutely watertight and gets heavy use. Some type of a flush hatch would look good but needs to be watertight since the forward deck gets lots of water. You might also want the hatch strong enough to stand on just in case. Regarding the bow sprit, the forward deck of a CS17 is not a comfortable place to visit - not sure a good sized solo sailor could safely get out on the bowsprit to untangle things when needed. I know the stern of my CS17 lifts out of the water if I stand in front of the main mast.

My Belhaven has a block and cam cleat on each side of the boat. The sheet goes thru the block on the mizzen, then down to the block at the rub rail and thru the cam cleat. I have only played with it a few times but it seem to work well. Sheeting forces are pulling the end of the mizzen boom down, which is a good thing. I've been tying off the staysail halyard to a eye on the either side of the seats. I just pass the line through the eye and tie a truckers hitch to get the right tension needed to function as a mizzen mast back stay.

I did a little ice breaking with Belhaven 19 on new years day. It was lots of fun through the thin ice, then I started thinking too much as the ice got thicker. We went through quarter inch ice at 4 knots without any apparent damage. I don't expect I will be doing much more ice breaking but I an wondering what the practical issues might be other than the obvious paint damage, frozen centerboards, and of course hypothermia. Is this a reasonable thing to do with a stitch and glue boat?

Don't overlook the option of buying a used coresound. There probably aren't a lot of mark 3's on the market yet, but they will come along as more get built. Boats built by fussy amateur builders can be of extremely high quality since they aren't under the economic pressure to turn a profit. I've seen some well built used boats sell for less then the cost of their materials. I'm south of you in Seattle but sailing some of the same waters you describe. The CS 17 or 20 mark 3, or Belhaven 19 are all good choices. I've found the ability to beach is critical as is having a dry place to sleep when it is 50F and raining.

Richard, I have both a standard CS17 and a Belhaven 19 but haven't seen any of the water ballasted boats. I'll share my experience and you can extrapolate to the CS20 Mark 3 versus Belhaven19. The CS17 at 400lb is fast, light, nimble and points better than the Belhaven. You sit maybe a foot above the water level which provides a sensation of speed and connection to the water. Spray hits the front of the cockpit at full speed. Performance in light air is good and it can be rowed if necessary. I don't use a motor. Great day sailor but no cabin to hide in when it gets wet, cold and dark. The Belhaven's external lead ballast gives it a rock solid keel boat feel. You sit higher above the water and cabin catches the spray in anything except heavy weather. In light air you can really tell you're dragging around lead, especially if trying to point. It is too big to row so I use a 3.5 hp motor. The big advantage of the Belhaven is the very comfortable cabin. The main mast is up forward of the cabin and the centerboard trunk is offset maybe a foot to the port side doesn't extend very far vertically. Sleeps two grown men with no spooning. It has so much storage space that I'm still finding things hidden away after a year of ownership. When necessary to motor long distances I spend significant time on auto-tiller standing in the companion way half out of the weather. Overall, I think your decision comes down to speed versus comfort and how and where you're going to use the boat. I love the Belhaven, but unless you are looking to do long trips I would think a CS20 mark 3 with water ballast would provide more excitement and adequate cabin. The flexibility of water ballast seems an advantage as is the shorter build time and availability of the precut kit. can't go wrong either way.

Ed, A Raymarine ST1000 came included with my Belhaven. I would never have spent $400 on such a frivolous device but have become addicted to it for long trips under power. I had two round trips this summer from Seattle to Port Townsend (30 miles one way) with no wind. The auto tiller worked on one trip and failed on the other. After it failed the 8 hours at the helm with an outboard in my ear was a completely different experience than using the auto tiller and being able to move around the boat and do other things like cook, clean, read, and hide from the weather. It is also nice to use under sail in light weather but is really kind of a novelty since a ketch self steers pretty well and I generally put kids and passengers on the tiller anyway. I don't know if it would be worth the expense on a CS17 where you're never far from the tiller, especially since you wouldn't want to use auto tiller under sail close hauled in anything but the lightest of winds.

The current trim of the boat and tracking are just fine. I didn't realize the fin was so short, but then I have the boat but not the plans. Getting up in the middle of the night to execute the fender maneuver is what has kept me from anchoring in the shallow stuff. Thanks for comments. I will procrastinate on it for awhile.

Dave, Following Graham's plans is never bad idea. Do you beach your boat often?

I am considering adding "the fin" to the bottom of my Belhaven 19. This fin is part of the standard design and goes on the opposite side from the centerboard to prevent the boat from tipping to starboard when beached. It sticks down perhaps a foot and is something like 3 feet in length. With the fin, I would be more comfortable anchoring in shallow areas where I might come to rest on the mud during overnight low water. From what I've read a foil shaped fin will provide lift which improves pointing ability while at the same time adding friction associated with its additional wetted surface area. The boat points fine with decent wind but could use help pointing during light wind/low speed sailing. My concern is that those light winds/low speed conditions are exactly the situation where wetted surface area is the dominate source of drag on the hull. So, the question is will the fin help or hurt performance, or at least do no harm? If you like to think about these things feel free to provide your two cents. Installation could happen this winter if I get my act together.

Rick, I've played around with a couple electric motors on my CS17, here's what I found. 1. A traditional smaller Minnkota electric trolling motor gave top speed of something like 2.5 to 3 knots with 19Amp draw on a 12V battery. This gave me about a 2 hour battery life on a 42lb, 55 Amp Hour battery. A CS15 should do a little better. These motors are inexpensive but not terribly efficient, end result is limited range. If you are just going out to noodle around it might be all you need. 2. Offered up my boat for electric paddle testing using different propellers a few years ago . Efficiency is dramatically better then the standard trolling motor. I think the power draw was about half and of course they pair it with an amazing small battery. I think you'd get pretty good range if you combined one of these motors with a larger on board battery. 3. Haven't tried torqueedo. depending upon model it could offer higher peak power output and of course their display provides continuous info on remaining range at current speed. Seems you'd need a spare battery or an on board battery for extended range. I think it comes down to budget, your appetite for technology, and your level of what electric car owners call "range anxiety" .

I've got a painting project ahead and I keep asking myself "why not use good old oil based marine enamel" and just brush it on. My old "plank on frame" boats looked fine that way. Is there a reason it wouldn't work on plywood. I understand the new paints are tougher and friendlier but not sure that really matters if I'm just painting the one boat and it spends 99% of the time on a trailer with a cover over it.

Trailer for sale or rent... 1980 "Teno" painted boat trailer, two 6 foot bunks, 15 inch tires, 2 inch ball. Overall length is 20 feet, overall width 92 inches, clear width inside the wheels is 72 inches. This trailer carried Belhaven 19 hull #3 from NC to Washington State last year without issue. Tires and bearings in good shape, paint is tired with surface rust. Cleaned up and repainted this would be a good choice for fresh water use on a Belhaven 19 or similar boat. Location is Seattle. Clean title is in hand. Contact me if interested and I'll figure out how to post a photo. I will probably put this on craigslist but wanted to give any Belhaven Builders a first shot.

Dave, Glad to hear another Belhaven is in construction. Seat heights from my Belhaven are 15 inches high at the cockpit, 12 inches inside the cabin across from the centerboard, and 13 inch at the forward seats inside the cabin. These are heights without cushions. I'm 6'1" and find the cockpit seats comfortable but typically use a cushion. Seats inside the cabin are no problem although I do sit in selected spots so my head clears the beams at the roof. If I were building right now I would keep the same seat heights and look closely at alternate, thinner roof construction combined with a slightly taller cabin to get another 2 inches of head room. At 5'11" I don't think you'll have that concern. I've had the boat for about a year and enjoy it very much. Feel free to contact me if you have other questions.

David, I agree with the rollers & bunk advice. A few additional ideas you might consider. I ran a 2x12 plank down the length of the trailer and centered it between the rollers and one bunk (opposite side of the centerboard) - I can walk out onto the plank when retrieving without getting wet. I made a nice soft resting spot for the centerboard and transport and store it with the tension off the up-haul. I also sleeved the aft end of the trailer with a plastic pipe on both sides of the roller so that the boat hits the plastic pipe with the bow if I miss the roller.

A friend sent me a link to a self flying camera that follows you around. https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg (search lily camera if the link doesn't work). I have no connection to the product; just intrigued with the possibility of some interesting sailing videos and thought some here might need ideas of what to do when they win the lottery.

When will the new track become available for sale?

If anyone is wondering why the Belhaven is a little low in the water it is because we packed 5 guys totaling at least 1,250 lbs on board. I was impressed how well she sailed with a load like that.

That's the same method I use except I switch back to spiral on the bottom of the sail so I can lace & unlace it quickly for reefing. I didn't have any problem with twist.

Casper, My CS17 has laced sails and solid wood mast. The snotter is hitched around the mast and would be a pain to remove. I just unlace the bottom of the sail up to the snotter and re-lace it after the reef is in. This adds a few minutes but it is not difficult.

I spoke with Edward a short time ago. He asked that I share the news of his safe return as he won't be online for awhile. They caught a good weather window late this morning and made the crossing back to the USA (Port Angles) on what sounds like a beam reach with a west wind. I'm sure he will post more about his adventure. Sure sounds like the had a fine time.

Brent, the forward station works just fine. I've put both sets of oar locks on my CS17 but typically only use the forward set. I lash the tiller to center line with a sail tie and sit upon a boat cushion on the centerboard when rowing. If there is any wind at all I typically end up rowing with one oar and "motor sail" at a boat speed of about 2.5 knots. Oars are a pain to break out, so I just use a canoe paddle for dock work.

Nice solution, and it looks like you could rig a "swim step" into the brackets for use when the motor is removed.

David, I've got a CS17 with no tabernacles and un-battened sails, and a Belhaven 19 with tabernacles on both mast and battens in the sails. On the CS17: The sails get rolled around the mast which is really convenient and fast. The down side is you loose sail area and light air performance. Additionally the wooden main mast with sail and boom weighing in at 34 pounds can be a handful when I'm wet and tired. The mizzen is no problem and almost seems like a toy. The main would be no problem if I switched to Aluminum. More likely I will add a tabernacle to the main. On the Belhaven: Tabernacles are so easy I can raise each mast with one arm but it helps to have a second person fool around with the bolt. Feeding the sails onto the track takes a few minutes but is not difficult or unpleasant. The downsides are that I leave the battens in the sails which make storage and handling awkward. The other thing is that the masts in tabernacles make access into the cabin a little inconvenient when the masts are down. I'm surprised how often I climb into the cabin when the boat is stored on the trailer. Last thing is the boat won't fit into my garage because the tabernacles are too tall for the door. So, my thoughts. I doubt that leaving the sail on the mast will work unless you forgo the battens. Check your storage length before you add tabernacles. I'd make the mast removable from the tabernacles so you can get them out of the way when working on the boat. Good luck with the weather. Crazy weather here in Seattle too (60F and sunny when it should be 45 degrees and raining).

Brent, yes, I've sent you a pm. Adam I hope you have started construction of your Belhaven. What the news?

Fred, I'm also in Seattle and have been watching in anticipation of finally getting to see a CS17 MK3. Sorry to hear about the set back. Please keep us posted and send me a pm if you ever need help moving or turning the boat.