Painting Wisdom

[Don Silsbe]

Can someone direct me to the discussion thread regarding System Three WR-LPU, spray painting, etc.?  For the life of me, I can't seem to locate it.  I'm at the point where I need an injection of painting wisdom, and reading that thread again would be very helpful.

 

I swear, that I am going to sift through all the entries on this forum, and publish a book of B&B Boatbuilding Wisdom.  It would be a thick book.  There is so much good stuff on this forum.  It's just hard to find, sometimes.

 

 

[Dnjost]

I used this system for my CS 17 so is probably in the thread for CS357.  Here is what I found helpful in applying the paint:

 

1.  Be sure the surface is clean and fair prior to primer

2.  Apply several (5-6) coats of primer and thin a little with water.  This is best done out of the wind and on a humid day!  

3.  Sand til fair, and apply several coats of thinned topside paint.  Once again, my best work was done in the garage, with the door open, while it was raining on a day that was not too hot or cold.  

 

Forgot to mention that I used a closed cell foam roller (type for applying epoxies and glues) and tipped it off immediately with a very expensive fine hair brush.  

 

I was able to burnish the paint to a mirror like finish, but am not sure the results were worth the bother.  It's a boat, not furniture.  

 

Good luck.

David jost

[PAR]

I've tried to squirt WR-LPU and have had no success. I've used a standard pressure pot, a HVLP gravity feed and a turbine HVLP setup, none worked, even with the air hose running through a bucket of ice water to cool it down. The turbine HVLP was the worst, with the paint drying in route to the work. The pressure pot worked as well as possible, but lots of dry overspray in the work. Thinning didn't help and flow promoters can't be used on the two part paints, so . . . I know some that say they've had some luck, but I've never seen the results, so can't say.

[Don Silsbe]

PAR-- I saw your comments about WR-LPU on your website.  I was hoping for a little help from the high humidity we've been getting lately. (7" of rain in the past week!)  But I've never used a spray gun before, and quite frankly, I'm scared.

 

Dave-- So, you're telling me that you rolled and tipped the entire boat?  Did you use the clear coat after applying color?  I assume you used the cross-linker, and buffed out prior to total cure?  You said that you used a "closed cell foam roller".  Don't you mean those yellow OPEN cell roller?  I'm not trying to correct you; I'm just making sure.  System Three recommends a 1/4" nap (as in fuzz) roller.  Did you try this?  Also, someone (I think it was "ecgossett) used a velour roller with their Awlgrip. I may experiment with all of these, during my application of primer (if I chicken out on spraying).  ALSO, how much primer & paint did you use?  I have four cans of WR-LPU-- one primer, one yellow (exterior), one white (interior & mast), and one clear (exterior; yes, I'm going for the furniture look). I sure hope that I don't have to buy more!

 

Bottom line from Dave, I think, is to take back the HVLP sprayer I just bought, and invest in a buffer.  Your boat sure does look nice.

 

Mid-day tomorrow is "Prime Time"!  I hope.

[Don Silsbe]

It was Jay Knight's CS 20.3, not Ed Gossett's CS17.1.

[Jknight611]

We used about a quart of Awlgrip paint, and with that, about a pint of brushing accelerator and 6 oz or so of reducer. That mixed up about 56 oz of white. The teal (green) was about 4 or 5 oz. just roll with the velour mini roller and lightly tip with a 4 brush with absolutely no pressure. Leave the room, come back in 8 hours and see what ya got.

We did prime with 3 coats of Awlgrip 545 which is the hi fill epoxy primer, with a mid sanding to 180 grit with a LONG board, learned to love that thing! Got to be good for the shoulders!

We have painted boats before, I honestly think the little light green velour rollers from Shewin Williams are the berries! No fuzz coming off, and they aren't effected by the paints, wear a good respirator, your lungs are delicate organs and that paint will seal them up!

[Chick Ludwig]

 "velour rollers from Sherwin Williams" I tried Googling these and the pictures that come up show blue velour rollers, but no green. Are they different? Do you have a stock number? 

 

Here are the blue ones: http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/products/catalog/shelf/equipment-supplies/rollers-covers-accessories/mini-roller-systems/?N=139181014+1251926278

[Don Silsbe]

I've got an old velour painting of Elvis.  Wondering if I can repurpose that.  (Just kidding, of course.)  Guess I just need to "walk on".

[Don Silsbe]

I'm going into the Big City tonight.  I'm gonna pick up a bag of those velour rollers, and let 'er roll.  (I live in the boondocks, and need to coordinate my shopping with other trips to town.)

 

I tried the foam rollers that Alan recommended, but they kept coming unglued from the cardboard sleeve on the end that hit the bandsaw.  Hmm...  Anyway, I'll try all three.

[Jknight611]

I went on a clean up rampage and threw the bag away, but that surly looks to be the roller covers. They work really good! Well, they did for us, no warranty expressed or implied.

[Don Silsbe]

OK!  I'll add them to my inventory, photo below.  Tonight I'll also turn in my new spray gun for a polisher.  Sounds like the safe way to proceed.  Right?

[Don Silsbe]

OK!  I'll add them to my inventory, as shown in photo.  (Note foam roller defect.)  Tonight I'll also turn in my new spray gun for a polisher.  Sounds like the safe way to proceed.  Right?

[Jknight611]

Don, no need to buff, in fact Awlgrip should not be buffed, roll er on, and lightly tip and get away!

[Don Silsbe]

I've already purchased my System Three WR-LPU.  Good news (I guess) is that buffing is allowed.

[Don Silsbe]

David Jost-- Did you wet sand between coats of color?  And did you use clear topcoat for your high gloss finish?

[Hirilonde]

I have never tried spraying anything, but some characteristics of the paint affect roll and tip as well as spray.

 

Cool, humid and no wind is perfect.  I did most of my Lapwing coats under these circumstances and had all the time in the world to keep a wet edge.  It still set up for recoat in a couple to three hours.  With the catalyst hot recoat is a 24 hours window.  So there are lots of options for a non-stop paint job if you can approach these conditions.
 

Any one or more of hot, direct sun light, windy and dry are fighting against you.  The stuff flashes off fast, even with water as the reducer.  The stuff is already thin, but the directions say 10% added water is desirable.  I did my Renegade in cool and humid with no direct sunlight but wind.  The wind reeked havoc trying to keep a wet edge.

 

If you are willing to sand and buff out the finish, I see no reason not to roll and tip.  I found this unnecessary, but I wanted a classic semi-gloss finish.  They also have a clear coat, but I doubt it will rival the solvent based products.

 

 

[Randy Jones]

I've got a painting project ahead and I keep asking myself "why not use good old oil based marine enamel" and just brush it on.   My old "plank on frame" boats looked fine that way.  Is there a reason it wouldn't work on plywood.  I understand the new paints are tougher and friendlier but not sure that really matters if I'm just painting the one boat and it spends 99% of the time on a trailer with a cover over it.

[Paul356]

I used the new Jamestown "Total Boat" one part enamel.  It thins with mineral spirits, so it is at least a modern approximation of good ol' enamel.  I primed with two coats of their companion primer (thins with xylene), slightly thinned.  I rolled and tipped all.  It does not look like brand new gel coat, like the two-parts seem to look, but I am very happy with the results, feel I could do even better with a little more care*, and feel like I got a very good return for my time invested.  I did not want to mess with trying to mix just the right amount of two part, etc.  I certainly did not want to mess with a paint that required a respirator or Tyvek suit or spray unit or anything else complicated.  I used the very short-nap yellow foam rollers from WEST.  They did not fall apart.  I sanded lightly between coats w/ 220, vacuumed and wiped.  Rolled on very thin. 

 

The paint was very easy to use and cleanup was no problem.  Mineral spirits are very mild (xylene not so much, but used little and it's not too bad).  Don't sand the dry primer heavily, and don't wipe it with very much xylene, or it will melt off. 

 

*The second coat looked great.  I thought I could get by without sanding for the third by applying "hot" before the 2d was hard-dry and it did not look as good.  I will probably go back and sand and recoat at some point, just for looks.

[Don Silsbe]

I've got a fair amount of experience with Interlux's Brightside enamel.  It is great to work with, and looks like a million bucks.  (Or at least like $40/qt.)  But this time around I wanted to try a tougher finish.  This boat is being built with strength & durability in mind.  So, the new hard finishes seemed the best choice.  We'll see how it all pans out!

[Dnjost]

Sorry for the delay.  Yes, wet sand.  I started at 600 grit and went through several grits to 1200.  Be careful, it's easy to sand through the paint to the primer.  Sorry for the confusion on the rollers.  The velour ones would work best as previously stated.  All you see on my boat is WR-LPU no clear coat.  Quite honestly,  I did not buff the whole boat, only the bottom, and most of the side panels.  The deck I just rolled and tipped.  Thin coats work best.  lots of them.  I did use the crosslinker,  didn't know I had an option.  

 

After using this paint system, the major advantage remains water clean up.  I do think that Paul has a point with paints that clean up with mineral spirits.  Those are pretty easy to apply, and not difficult to clean up.  They are definitely cheaper.  Time will tell if my paint holds up better in the long run.