CS20 spray dodger

[wkisting]

To anyone with a folding dodger on a Core Sound series boat, would you mind sharing some pics and any advice you can offer about the preferred materials, suppliers, and setup options?

At present, I'm leaning toward a small and simple 2-bow dodger for our CS20, probably in 7/8" aluminum tubing to keep the weight down, with stainless fittings for durability and aesthetics. I've looked at the Sailrite kits, but the kit for the small 2-bow dodger is $650, which seems quite high. Another option would be their frame-only kit for $230, and then I could find a canvas shop locally to make the fabric cover. Another possibility is to buy just the stainless fittings I need and then try to bend tubing myself after building a jig, which would come in around $150, but might not be worth the hassle. Thoughts and advice?

[ricknriver]

Thinking about the same for my BRS15 as she can get a bit wet in a blow. I think you may be able to borrow a tubing/conduit bender from some hardware/material suppliers (or a friendly electrician), rather than building a jig. I think there was a building thread/pics on a dodger a while back that I liked and may have copied off. I'll check. Also thought of conjuring up something using flat FG sail type battens (like some use for boat covers) sprung across the front of the cockpit. May also try a light wproof silnylon tent/tarp like fabric to save weight and make it easy to sew at home. Then could roll up and store the dodger easily. Just thoughts. R

[ecgossett]

Wes,

Let us know we have a wholesale account for our canvas company with Manart-Hirsch.

Catalog without prices http://manart-hirsch.com/MANART-HIRSCH.COM/catalog.html

I think we can just order wholesale with your address.

We recommend SeaMark since it's vinyl backed sunbrella, for around $20 a yard (have to call prices change weekly).

Sunguard wicking thread (it seals first time it gets wet), roughly $25 a spool.

Stainless steel is cheap, strong and not that heavy, and the 7/8" size is perfect for the Core Sounds. Bending isn't hard, jig is half piece of plywood with 2x4 on one side and a round piece of plywood cut out for middle.

Or you can find a used frame cheap that is close, to wide isn't a problem, you cut section out of middle to make it proper length, then split the cut out piece, put it in a anvil or good clamp and bend it slightly narrower and use as insert between to halves with a couple of rivets cost ($20 at back room at local canvas shop in Jax with extra stuff).

Buy the fabric and stuff yourself before paying someone to put it together. You can dummy up your coresound layout on 2x6 to take to local canvas shop, or do the patterning yourself. Recommend some plastic track (curves easily) for bottom of dodger and bolt rope (better solution then snaps) so water can't easily spray under.

$650 is extreme for materials. $230 for frame is also extreme.

Jaw slides and what not are not a problem, and you can beef kit up by using some short length of SS coming off frame on back side instead of strapping to pull it tight, or put the short lengths of front and forward under window to hold steady. A couple clevis pins for attachment points instead of bolts makes dodger easy to take down. Use a couple of split side mounts so you can make simple handles on top sides of frame (also make it very secure), so you can get forward easily if needed.

[wkisting]

I might just take you up on the chance to buy canvassing wholesale. We were planning on the Sunbrella fabric (probably "Toast" color) and Strataglass windows. Looks like Manart-Hirsch offers both. Thanks for the offer.

So far, I've found that I can get the stainless fittings I need for under $80, maybe less (4 eye ends, 2 jaw slides, and 2 universal deck hinges). The 7/8" stainless tubing won't cost more than $120 for the two 10' lengths I need--probably less if I order through my dad, who is a steel fabricator and may even have that size in stock already. He doesn't have a mandrel for making bends in 7/8 tubing, but buying the mandrel would be cheaper than the high mark-up of the Sailrite kits, and would be used again if I decide to build a bimini top for the aft compartment later.

So now I'm thinking I could get all the materials I need for under $200 versus the $400 Sailrite charges for their frame-only kit! Then I could buy fabric and find someone locally to do the sewing. Even paying someone to do the sewing, I should save 33 - 50% off the Sailrite complete kit for a 2-bow dodger in stainless--especially if you're able to get me a wholesale price on the fabric.

[ecgossett]

and wholesale on fittings.

[wkisting]

Edward, sent you a PM with a list of what I would need. Interested to know the wholesale price before I commit.

[makenmend]

I'm not that far along yet that I have put much thought into a dodger, but it does sound like something that will work for me, have opened the fwd bulkhead (to seat level) and enclosed (air box) to just aft of the mast step. So a body could keep out of the weather to a fair degree. That cataloge has a lot of interesting stuff to. Waiting to see the outcome of this thread.

MM

[wkisting]

Well, after MANY hours of sketching and calculating, this is what I came up with for a dodger...

A two-bow design... approximately 22" high above the side decks (yielding about 32" of clearance above the seat tops). The roofline is 25-1/2" long, then the front panel/windshield slopes 9" further forward (so 34-1/2" long overall). I'll put some crown in the tops of the bows which will raise the head clearance approximately 4" higher in the center. Should be just enough head clearance for Anna to sit under it comfortably.

Here it is sketched to scale and pasted on a picture of the boat. What do you think? I'm wondering whether it will adversely affect sailing performance. I could go smaller, but we'd begin to sacrifice comfort. Part of me thinks it is strange to have a dodger taller than the freeboard of the boat, but the picture doesn't look too strange to my eye.

[ecgossett]

Ridgerunner has an impressive dodger on his CS20. My only thought would be to use all the strataglass possible so I have good view forward and to sides from multiple angles just in case, might save having to look over dodger. Of course that leads to making covers for strataglass so you can sleep at night / day in light/street lights, or protect from sun..

[ricknriver]

I think it looks fine Wes and I think its good to be sure tallest person can sit comfortably under the dodger, otherwise very uncomfortable and defeats the purpose. Even if ideal appearance has to be sacrificed a bit. Seems like enough strataglass with wrap around design you have. R

[rattus]

Well, after MANY hours of sketching and calculating, this is what I came up with for a dodger...

A two-bow design... approximately 22" high above the side decks (yielding about 32" of clearance above the seat tops). The roofline is 25-1/2" long, then the front panel/windshield slopes 9" further forward (so 34-1/2" long overall). I'll put some crown in the tops of the bows which will raise the head clearance approximately 4" higher in the center. Should be just enough head clearance for Anna to sit under it comfortably.

Here it is sketched to scale and pasted on a picture of the boat. What do you think? I'm wondering whether it will adversely affect sailing performance. I could go smaller, but we'd begin to sacrifice comfort. Part of me thinks it is strange to have a dodger taller than the freeboard of the boat, but the picture doesn't look too strange to my eye.

Wes, is it possible to bring the front lower edge further forward?

I think it would improve the aesthetics, improve your drag coefficient hard on the wind, leave plenty of room underneath, and give you a deeper protected shelf when the dodger is up. FWIW.

My 2¢... Mike

[ecgossett]

It comes down to how much room forward of dodger you want to be able to walk on. On mine I didn't want it beyond the forward hatch. I used the coming curves and matched SS roughly to it so when bars lay down forward they go around it. Other solution is to put zippers so you can have a roll up section forward for windy days, or to climb forward if you want to leave it up. The best would be having a opening section in deck and roll up window, lots of room to climb through.

[wkisting]

Yes, I'm planning a wide roll up section in the middle of the front panel, to allow a breeze to come right through. We'll probably use it mainly for shade during the long summers, but in the late fall, it will also be nice to be able to seal it up to block cold spray for the forward passengers.

I could carry the slope of the front panel further forward, but it's already 9" forward of the coaming. Wherever it ends up is where the bows will land when it is folded down. I'll have to play with the measurements a bit more to see how much I can tweak it. It's actually very difficult designing a short tall dodger that still stows compactly. The frame geometry for the height we wanted (32") really favors a roofline almost 3' long, but I'm trying to keep the roof closer to 2' long because that's plenty of shelter for its intended use and will keep it well clear of the mainsheet even when the sails are let out very far. I'm planning to add a zipper or track along the aft edge, though, so we can attach a cockpit tent later if desired.

[wkisting]

Okay, here's a revised dodger, with more slope to the front panel and slightly lower roof height. The roofline is now 27" long, with 5 degrees of slope. There is 31" of height at the aft edge, and 28.5" of height at the forward edge of the roof. Then the front panel slopes forward an additional 12" ahead of the coaming to reduce windage.

This one looks much better to my eye.

Is it a problem to have a 76 degree angle between the bows instead of a full 90? That was the only way I could keep within the desired height and length.

[tom151]

Okay, here's a revised dodger, with more slope to the front panel and slightly lower roof height. The roofline is now 27" long, with 5 degrees of slope. There is 31" of height at the aft edge, and 28.5" of height at the forward edge of the roof. Then the front panel slopes forward an additional 12" ahead of the coaming to reduce windage.

Very nice, much improved esthetics withthe front edge moved forward.

Raising the aft edge a bit, which would add a slight visual slope to the top (as well as a bit more headroom there) might look nice too.

[wkisting]

The problem is that if I raise the aft edge, I start to lose height at the forward edge very quickly OR the angle between bows shrinks even more (it's already down to 76 degrees instead of the optimal 90). I'm thinking if I build the frame to these dimensions, then I can still tilt it forward to increase the roof slope if it seems practical. But on paper, it's hard to see/draw the difference between a 5 vs. 7 degree slope. I know I can't push it to 10 degrees, though, or I lose too much vertical height at the forward end and the windshield shrinks as well.

Here's the frame geometry if anyone's interested. Note that the drawing does not account for the additional 3-4" of crown height that will be added to the middle of each bow. Thank heaven I still remember some of the geometry/trigonometry lessons I learned in high school.

[PeterP]

"If it be now 'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now ; if it be not now, yet it will come: the readiness is all." I think you are ready! PeterP

[Hirilonde]

(it's already down to 76 degrees instead of the optimal 90).

Why is 90º optimal?

[ecgossett]

It's all going to change you fit your pattern material over it and you play with it. Then you make your actual cover, and it will change slightly again as things are moved to tighten fabric. 90 is more optimal with aluminum, SS is strong, and for this application its not that big. For some big boats I would be more concerned.

[PinoyPiper]

nice looking dodger! my boat is not with me to do measurements, what's the the space between the seat and the "ceiling"? is there room to sit under there?