wkisting

Hi all, Just updating this thread to let people know the CS20 sold awhile ago. I've had three inquiries since then and kept forgetting to come back to update this thread. Wes

Hi all, Sorry for the delayed reply. I was up looking for houses in Wisconsin this past weekend and it's a whirlwind of activity here getting our house ready to sell. I've had one inquiry about the CS20 on gmail that I'm about to follow up on today. Really, I'd prefer to keep it, but I'm in a difficult position where we have two boats... the CS20 and also a 27' trailerable houseboat we've been building for 4+ years that is finished on the outside but not started on the interior yet. Oddly, I've had people asking to buy both of them now, so we've got to make some tough decisions soon. The houseboat is harder to move, but it will be heartbreaking to sell it before getting to finish and enjoy it. The CS20 is the easier boat to enjoy and also to store, but that means it's also the easier to sell. We just can't have two boats to haul across the country. Have to be leaving for Wisconsin by June 23, so time is short. Wes

Hi all, Very long time since I last posted. I hope everyone is well. Just before the pandemic I had considered selling our CS20 and found a buyer, but he backed out (not due to any concern about the boat) and then I decided to keep it. Now, we just learned we will be moving from Georgia to Wisconsin, so I am highly motivated to try selling it again. We already have another boat to move, and moving two boats cross country seems too much. Our CS20 is made with top quality materials and several nice touches (drop in berth boards, a little gimbaled cook stove, Lowrance GPS/depthfinder combo unit, a basket for binoculars/horn/anemometer, etc.). All parts are BS1088 Okoume plywood except the bottom panels, where I took another builder's suggestion to go with denser, more dent-resistant BS1088 Meranti. All exterior surfaces (hull, deck, open cockpit) were sheathed in fiberglass, using Raka marine epoxy. The bow/keel is trimmed in stainless steel for impact resistance. The transom has custom outboard mount that attaches/removes almost like a trailer hitch receiver (but nicer, custom built by a steel fabricator). I have a nice frame for a dodger with mounts on the boat, though we never had time to get it canvassed. All parts are built to the original "Mark 1" plans, except that I took another builder's suggestion to add about an extra inch of curvature in the forward deck for aesthetic reasons. At another builder's suggestion, I also slightly increased the profile of the slim keel to reduce slippage in waters too shallow to drop the CB very far (works great!). The aluminum masts are built from top-grade parts supplied by Graham/B&B as spec'd, except the foremast has a custom milled removable extension at the top so the overall length of the mast is easier to fit on the trailer and in a garage (I have a folding tongue on the trailer, as well). Algae and barnacle resistant VC Performance (teflon impregnated) paint on the hull. Easy to apply Systems 3 WR-LPU paint in the cockpit. Mahogany rub rails, hatch trim, and cockpit coaming trim. Sails are slightly oversized and were purchased from Graham/B&B as well. Sale would include everything: boat, trailer, sails/rigging (which show some wear but have a lot of life left), 2008 3.5hp Suzuki outboard (perfect match, in my opinion), GPS/depthfinder, battery system with integrated charger and master off switch--basically, everything you need to go sailing right away. I might even be able to dig up my old web files which where I had meticulously detailed the build years ago, as they have a lot of great information about materials, etc. The only "issues": the boat needs a good cleaning and would benefit from fresh varnish on the bright deck. Keel near the stern has moderate damage where the paint was rubbed off by scraping rocks or jumping off the keel rollers, but in every case, the area was immediately dried, fixed, and re-sealed with epoxy (i.e. purely cosmetic... it only matters if you care about the look of the keel under the water, where a few epoxy-wood blemishes now show through the white hull paint). There are also a few random scrapes and dings, but nothing significant and all very minor cosmetic issues... Exactly what you would expect to see after a boat has been in the water a few dozen times. Always well cared for, there is zero rot, and really, the boat is darn near 'like new' except for the dust. The motor was properly winterized, but has not been run in ~5 years now. I think a very fair price would be around ~$12K, and would possibly go as low as $10K, which would recoup much of the materials/equipment, but none of my labor, of course (I chalk that up to the fun of the build). Please email me at weskisting@gmail.com or text me at 706-513-4346 if interested. Wes By the way, you can find several videos of the boat (with dubious production value) on YouTube here: - Sample setup time: https://youtu.be/DRecZZU8Pus - Drop in berth panels: https://youtu.be/FzTfw0f-I4g - Sample sail outing: https://youtu.be/Pdg1o8cfErk - Gimbal stove (DIY): https://youtu.be/FvHYlfJa6Y0 - Demo of motor noise/performance: https://youtu.be/96rN3Feankg A couple pictures (not recent... hasn't left the garage in ~2 years, but has been stored safely away from the elements/UV it's entire life, on trailer).

I completely forgot to come back and mention this, but I listed the CS20 on eBay. If someone gets this at the minimum bid, they'll be getting an unbelievably good deal. I can live with that. I really need the space back in my garage with other projects underway. Less than 24 hours left: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-B-B-Yacht-Designs-Core-Sound-20/254349076205

Thanks!

*bump -- Any thoughts from those of you who have sold/seen Core Sounds in the past? Is the $12-14K range about right?

Location is Augusta, GA. By chance, very recent circumstances have made me highly motivated to sell, and price is negotiable.

Hi all, Very long time since I last posted. I hope everyone is well. Sorry to post out of the blue, but I'm in the midst of another boat build--a 28' river cruiser with sleepaboard accommodations--and since our last girl was born five years ago, we've barely used our Core Sound 20. I hate to part with it, but I have too many boats, no garage space, and probably another year to go on the river cruiser/houseboat. I'm wondering what you all think might be a fair selling price? The boat is made with top quality materials and several nice touches (drop in berth boards, a little gimbaled cook stove, Lowrance GPS/depthfinder combo unit, a basket for binoculars/horn/anemometer, etc.). All parts are BS1088 Okoume plywood except the bottom panels, where I took another builder's suggestion to go with denser, more dent-resistant BS1088 Meranti. All exterior surfaces (hull, deck, open cockpit) sheathed in 'glass. Raka epoxy. Bow/keel trimmed in stainless steel for impact resistance. Transom has custom outboard mount that attaches/removes almost like a trailer hitch receiver (but nicer, custom built by a steel fabricator). I also have a nice frame for a dodger with mounts on the boat, though we never had time to get it canvassed. All parts are built to the original "Mark 1" plans, except that I took another builder's suggestion to add about an extra inch of curvature in the forward deck for aesthetic reasons. At another builder's suggestion, I also slightly increased the profile of the slim keel to reduce slippage in waters too shallow to drop the CB very far (works great!). The aluminum masts are built from top-grade parts supplied by Graham/B&B as spec'd, except that the foremast has a custom milled removable extension at the top so the overall length of the mast is easier to fit on the trailer and in a garage (I have a folding tongue on the trailer, as well). Fungus resistant VC Performance (teflon impregnated) paint on the hull. Easy to apply Systems 3 WR-LPU paint in the cockpit. Mahogany rub rails, hatch trim, and cockpit coaming trim. Sails are slightly oversized and were purchased from Graham/B&B as well. Sale would include everything: boat, trailer, sails/rigging (which show some wear but have a lot of life left), 2008 3.5hp Suzuki outboard (perfect match, in my opinion), GPS/depthfinder, battery system with integrated charger and master off switch--basically, everything you need to go sailing right away. I might even be able to dig up my old web files which where I had meticulously detailed the build years ago, as they have a lot of great information about materials, etc. The only "issues": needs a good cleaning and would probably benefit from fresh varnish on the bright deck. Keel near the stern has moderate damage where the paint was rubbed off by scraping rocks or jumping off the keel rollers, but in every case, the area was immediately dried, fixed, and re-sealed with epoxy (i.e. purely cosmetic--only matters if you care about the look of the keel under the water, with a few epoxy-wood blemishes showing through the white hull paint). There are a few random scrapes and dings, but nothing significant and all very minor cosmetic issues--about what you would expect to see after a boat has been in the water a dozen times. Always well cared for, there is zero rot, and really, the boat is darn near 'like new' except for the dust. Motor was properly winterized, but has not been run in ~ 2 years, so it needs the fuel and carb drained in my opinion (that's a long time for gas to sit, even though it has a good fuel stabilizer). Off the top of my head, I'm thinking maybe ~$14K, which would recoup most of the materials/equipment, but none of my labor, of course (I chalk that up to the fun of the build). Wes By the way, you can find several videos of the boat (with dubious production value) on YouTube here: - Sample setup time: https://youtu.be/DRecZZU8Pus - Drop in berth panels: https://youtu.be/FzTfw0f-I4g - Sample sail outing: https://youtu.be/Pdg1o8cfErk - Gimbal stove (DIY): https://youtu.be/FvHYlfJa6Y0 - Demo of motor noise/performance: https://youtu.be/96rN3Feankg A couple pictures (not recent... hasn't left the garage in ~2 years, but has been stored safely away from the elements/UV it's entire life, on trailer).

What about stretching an uncut/unstitched piece of heavy canvas over the entire hatch opening with rib supports, with little (elastic? bungee shock corded?) side tabs sewn on either side (about every 6 - 8") that run down to little "cars" mounted on a piece of sailtrack on either side of the hatch. There would be no seams over the hatch to leak, and the cars should run smoothly to push the canvas forward to open the hatch, like sliding open a shower curtain. Haven't thought it through... there might be a design problem I'm not considering, but it seems like that kind of idea could be made to work without seams.

Hi all, I'm hoping to finish the spray dodger for our CS20 this Spring. I built the frame last year and it came out great, and I have the geometry all worked out, but then I had to put it on hold because money was tight and it took me a long time to decide if I want to try my hand at sewing it (I've decided I do). I've seen the skin kits from Sailrite, but does anyone have a good recommendation where I should order the materials (Sunbrella fabric, facing, binding, basting tape, etc.)? I don't want to use snap fasteners and some of the other hardware Sailrite includes in their kits, and it also seems like they have an awful lot of markup in their kits (I already saved a bundle by sourcing and building the stainless support bows myself). I haven't really ordered fabrics online before, but it seems like for any given material or product, there's always a supplier out there who offers consistently good values. If you have any recommendations on reliable and affordable suppliers, please do let me know. Wes

Rolando, are you wetting the cloth with enough epoxy? It may just be the lighting or perhaps a very thick or tight-woven cloth, but that cloth looks "starved" to me. The concern is that if enough epoxy isn't penetrating through to the wood (which should make the cloth almost entirely transparent, not white-ish), the fiberglass may cure without a strong bond to the wood. I had a friend who had that happen with a cedar canoe he built many years ago. After a few years of canoeing, he struck some rocks in a shallow river and the rocks sliced through the fiberglass and peeled it away almost exactly like unzipping a coat... leaving bare wood behind. When we went to repair the 2 foot area later, we were shocked how easily the entire bottom of the boat peeled away. So we ended up peeling it off and re-glassing the entire hull. Only explanation we could ever come up with was that he had starved the cloth when epoxying, so the epoxy was "held" in the cloth instead of passing through in plentiful enough volume to also bond strongly to the wood. That's also why many builders recommend applying an initial coat of epoxy to the bare wood before laying the first layer of cloth, then laying the cloth as soon as the "tackiness" of that first coat cures off. My apologies if you already know this or if I'm mis-reading the pictures. Just thought I'd mention it.

My experience matches Dale's. Our CS20 is garage kept, so despite a lot of use in the Georgia sun, we were able to go 6 years without re-varnishing. I just applied 3 fresh coats this year for the first time, but I was surprised how good the old varnish had held up. If not for some scuffs and bangs from dropping a spar here and there, I probably could've gone a few more years without revarnishing! I use ZSpar Flagship varnish... expensive, but loaded with UV protection, weathers extremely well, and looks good too.

Well, it turns out the steeplechase races are the same weekend. You might not know this unless you have daughters like I do, but horses beat sailboats--and daddy doesn't get to vote on it. So unfortunately, I won't be able to make the messabout. Very sorry to miss it, but I hope you all have fun and post pictures for the rest of us.

Very nice... and that was kind of her to offer up some pictures. Once in a blue moon, I notice someone photographing our boat, and I always say to my wife, "I wish I could track that person down to ask if they'd send me a copy of the pictures!" I still don't have a single picture of my boat taken from the outside while I'm at the helm except for one my wife snapped on launch day in 2007. Your CS17 looks a lot like our CS20. Here's a recent pic from a few weeks ago, though, when we had a beautiful 8 hours of sailing, from Beaufort, SC to Hilton Head and back.

Thanks Joe! If we drive up, we'll likely take you up on that offer.

Pending good weather, I'm thinking about driving up with my daughter Bella again. This time, we might skip bringing the boat -- last year it was a bit overwhelming trying to manage launching/retrieving boat and keep track of a 2-year-old at the same time. Anyone else attending who might be willing to take on a well-behaved crew of 2 for a sail? Wes

I used to get a ton of e-mails asking about the motor on my CS20 and how it performs. Here's the webpage I finally put up about that topic. It's a few years old, but I think most of the observations are still fairly accurate. Besides the Merc/Tohatsu and Honda options, I think Yamaha also makes a sub-4 hp motor also, which weighs somewhere in between those other two options. I think all of them are fine motors. The Honda has gotten a little lighter (minus a pound, I think) and a little more powerful (bumped up to 2.3 hp) in the last few years. http://www.roguepaddler.com/cs20w.htm

Very nice! I have often said that if I was going to make any modifications to our CS20 (mk 1), I would raise the foredeck by about 8" and create a crawl-in cuddy space up front. This version looks much more spacious with a higher deck than I had in mind, but is right in line with the spirit of what I was envisioning. Almost tempts me to build one, but I'm so attached to the boat we have. The CS20, in any guise, is such a fine boat!

If it were me, I'd drill a small drain hole (1/8") at the bottom tip of the triangle to drain out into the cockpit. That way, any water that gets in can get out. That seems the simplest, lightest solution and the least likely to promote rot if your concerns about water intrusion are warranted. The other possibility--and probably the one I would actually choose--is just to be fairly liberal with the thickened epoxy when you bond the case together, and then carefully use a shaped stick (or some kind of makeshift tool) to reach down inside the case after assembly to create small fillets along the insides edges of the case. That should negate any likelihood of water intrusion also. You'll just need to be careful to clean up any mess to keep the inside of the case smooth before the epoxy hardens. [Edit to add: You could do the fillets on one side of the case before assembly, obviously, to make it easier. But the other side would need the shaped stick treatment.]

It looks great! FWIW, I would want to 'glass the board before prepping the trunk. You'll want to know the final thickness of the board before you prep the trunk, won't you? That way you can get the trunk width/spacing exactly right.

Good looking boat! Looks like a nice day for sailing, too. Thanks for sharing.

In the video, you likely noticed that I have my main sheet set up to terminate at clam cleats positioned on the coaming on either side of the cockpit. I liked that setup and it worked well, but it meant the mainsheet ran across the seats, and I have little girls who somehow always seem to end up sitting on the mainsheet at that location, depriving me of sail control. Rather than waiting for the inevitable capsize, I went ahead recently and changed the mainsheet so that it now terminates in a swivel base cam cleat at the edge of the thwart. This means no more main sheet running across the seat tops, and it also makes the main sheet easier to release or re-engage because the cam cleats are noticeably smoother to operate than the clam cleats I had before. It also makes it easier to sit on the rail and hike out, which tended to put my legs in the way of access to the clam cleats. With the new hardware, it's much more convenient. And it frees up a little more seating space, too, since there's no clam cleat to jab you in the back if you try to sit in the wrong spot. Here's a picture. I know others have installed similar hardware (or fabricated their own versions). I just wanted to say that I really like this setup. BTW, these are Ronstan RF58 swivel base cam cleats. There are two (one on each side of the thwart), though only one is shown here, obviously.

Just reporting back on the results... I tried sewing some velcro onto my batten pockets. I put a short strip of adhesive velcro on the end of each batten, then a sewed a matching strip onto the underside of the flap that closes each batten pocket. I'm fairly certain the velcro isn't strong enough to keep the flap shut if the sails flog vigorously (such as when turning across the wind or caught "in irons"). However, the velcro does prevent the batten from shifting upward or downward to work its way out from under the batten flap. So I still consider it an improvement because, although I still have to lace the batten flaps closed, I don't have to lace them so tightly as I did before. It didn't turn out like I was expecting, but I like it enough that, although I only did the mainsail so far, I'm going to do the mizzen the same way.

Not sure if this will help, but I found it wasn't reliable just to call around to lumber yards. I had no luck finding a lumber yard by phone that offered "clear" Douglas Fir. When I finally decided it was worth a drive to my local lumberyard in downtown Augusta (who told me by phone they only have "C or better"), I was stunned to walk out and see a bin entirely full of absolutely clear Douglas Fir. When I asked the lumber yard why they told me by phone they don't sell "clear," he said it was because they didn't want people going out there and "cherry picking" the best pieces and leaving them with only knotty lumber to sell to their high volume buyers (contractors, etc.). So they just list it as "C or better" and when you drive out to have it loaded, you get what you get. After seeing it, I said I'll take 5 boards and the first 5 off the pile were BEAUTIFUL pieces. Many of you may already know this, but I just wanted to point out for the sake of others: There may be a disconnect between what the lumberyard tells you they have, and what is actually laying in their bins. After that experience, I'd say it's worth it to actually visit a few lumberyards in person and ask to look at what they're selling. If you tell them it's because you're building a boat, most of the folks I've dealt with take an active interest and will let you go look the wood over first to make sure it's suitable. In a few cases back when I was building a cedar strip kayak many years ago, the guy at an Iowa lumberyard actually cherry picked the pieces for me and was excited to see the boat when it was finished. I think he put more effort into selecting top pieces than I would have!

Looks like very nice work. Fun to watch it coming together!