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Spindrift 12 #1275 - out haul line anchor to boom


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From Spindrift 10 plans... it looks like an eye strap could anchor the blue out haul line on the port side.
The red line is an extra loop to pull straight down on the clew. Does this help?
2C3057CB-3D30-47C5-8025-9E94BCB2F2DE.thumb.png.5ff19b393e7d653a68a2b689acfa7cbd.png

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13 hours ago, PadrePoint said:

From Spindrift 10 plans... it looks like an eye strap could anchor the blue out haul line on the port side.
The red line is an extra loop to pull straight down on the clew. Does this help?
2C3057CB-3D30-47C5-8025-9E94BCB2F2DE.thumb.png.5ff19b393e7d653a68a2b689acfa7cbd.png

Thanks, I have that same view on my plans, but it just shows the line going behind the boom.  I suppose an eyelet could be back there to run & knot the end of the line through.

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12 hours ago, Designer said:

Hi Jan,

A Harken eyestrap goes on the port side of the boom for the outhaul. There is a drawing from the top view showing how the cheek block and eyestrap share the same fasteners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Graham,  I looked through all my plan sheets carefully & couldn't find the top view you speak of.

So there is an eyestrap on both sides of the boom?

If that is the case, I can picture the 2 eyestraps sharing  "bolted fasteners", but I can't picture the beckon block & eyestrap sharing fasteners because they are at right angles to each other.....

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I think this is the view Graham is referring to eye strap is on the port. cheek block is on the starboard.  It looks like the sheet block hangs from a separate eye strap underneath the boom. The tip of the boom is very busy with fasteners. Some are running at right angles to each other. Sharing fasteners cuts down on the clutter. I think I had to adjust my eye strap a little to get it to line up with the cheek block. Very careful drilling is in order. You may even want to practice on a scrap of wood. I think I ran my sheet block to the center of the boom instead of the end.

 

 

P2200194.thumb.jpg.2bdc5556b296bf30ea18e216d53e1926.jpg

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Joe Anderson said:

Very careful drilling is in order

I've found drilling halfway from each side works with any misalignment hidden in the middle of wood where no one can see it🙂

Cheers

Peter HK

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7 hours ago, Joe Anderson said:

I think this is the view Graham is referring to eye strap is on the port. cheek block is on the starboard.  It looks like the sheet block hangs from a separate eye strap underneath the boom. The tip of the boom is very busy with fasteners. Some are running at right angles to each other. Sharing fasteners cuts down on the clutter. I think I had to adjust my eye strap a little to get it to line up with the cheek block. Very careful drilling is in order. You may even want to practice on a scrap of wood. I think I ran my sheet block to the center of the boom instead of the end.

 

 

P2200194.thumb.jpg.2bdc5556b296bf30ea18e216d53e1926.jpg

 

 

P2200195.thumb.jpg.7197060e88a7f0f52dca810cf98d165e.jpg

Thanks Joe.  I don't have that top view section or that page in my plans.  Now that you showed me a cheek block, I know what that is & I don't have that either.

I am not doing a reef line, so that may be why my hardware is different.  I have eyelets, so I think I should bolt eyelets on the port & starboard sides, across from each other & share bolts.  I'll tie the outhaul line to the port side eyelet & use the starboard eyelet as a cheek block.  Do you think that will be OK?

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1 minute ago, J. Cote said:

Thanks Joe.  I don't have that top view section or that page in my S12 plans.  Now that you showed me a cheek block, I know what that is & I don't have that either.

I am not doing a reef line, so that may be why my hardware is different.  I have eyelets, so I think I should bolt eyelets on the port & starboard sides, across from each other & share bolts.  I'll tie the outhaul line to the port side eyelet & use the starboard eyelet as a cheek block.  Do you think that will be OK?

 

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Graham weighed in earlier and mentioned the cheek block sooo. 

 

Granted omitting the cheek block would cause more of a problem on  the reefing line as it has to go forward and up and over the tack and down to the base of the mast. The clew is just cleated on the boom. 

Graham has little tolerance for extraneous complexity or weight. If that cheek block wasn't earning its keep I think he would have removed it from the plans.

Normally I set the outhaul tension when I am setting up before starting to sail. In that situation you could probably get enough tension on the outhaul despite the extra friction of the eye strap. however once underway getting proper tension is much more difficult. There have been times when the outhaul line has come out of the jam cleat or I have forgotten to tension  it or I want to adjust the tension underway. Then I am grateful for the cheek block.

 

If you are using the 073 eye strap with hole spacing that matches the cheek block than theoretically you could later easily replace the eye strap with a cheek block, but if the hole spacing does not line up you will have an issue. I did not see the RL 340 cheek block on the Racelite web site. If you got a hardware package from B&B. Perhaps Graham or Alan will chime in and give you a definitive answer.

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1 hour ago, Joe Anderson said:

Graham weighed in earlier and mentioned the cheek block sooo. 

 

Granted omitting the cheek block would cause more of a problem on  the reefing line as it has to go forward and up and over the tack and down to the base of the mast. The clew is just cleated on the boom. 

Graham has little tolerance for extraneous complexity or weight. If that cheek block wasn't earning its keep I think he would have removed it from the plans.

Normally I set the outhaul tension when I am setting up before starting to sail. In that situation you could probably get enough tension on the outhaul despite the extra friction of the eye strap. however once underway getting proper tension is much more difficult. There have been times when the outhaul line has come out of the jam cleat or I have forgotten to tension  it or I want to adjust the tension underway. Then I am grateful for the cheek block.

 

If you are using the 073 eye strap with hole spacing that matches the cheek block than theoretically you could later easily replace the eye strap with a cheek block, but if the hole spacing does not line up you will have an issue. I did not see the RL 340 cheek block on the Racelite web site. If you got a hardware package from B&B. Perhaps Graham or Alan will chime in and give you a definitive answer.

Thanks Joe.  Alan & Thrilsbe collaborated on my hardware at a time when I didn't know what any of this stuff was, let alone where it goes.  I just recently opened the bags to figure them out.  Alan/Graham, what do you think?

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I am sure Graham or Alan will get back to you. 

 

In the mean time the RL 340 cheek block(if that is what is included in your kit) does not look like much. It is small and the pulley part can become separated so it can be a little difficult to pick out of a bag of hardware. Maybe you have it.

 

RL340__61354.1597268201.jpg.bd24838619cd9840a0c4ff88db058873.jpg

 

If anyone asks I lifted that photo from the Duckworks web site.

 

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1 hour ago, Joe Anderson said:

I am sure Graham or Alan will get back to you. 

 

In the mean time the RL 340 cheek block(if that is what is included in your kit) does not look like much. It is small and the pulley part can become separated so it can be a little difficult to pick out of a bag of hardware. Maybe you have it.

 

RL340__61354.1597268201.jpg.bd24838619cd9840a0c4ff88db058873.jpg

 

If anyone asks I lifted that photo from the Duckworks web site.

 

Nope, don't have one in my kit or in my invoice list,  Let's see what Alan/Graham recommend.  Thanks for the photo.

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Janice, 

The confusion here is because Don substituted the raacelite 340 block that joe pictures for the ball bearing Ronstan RF20151 cheek blocks on the hardware order. So the one you used for the halyard is the same cheek block that you'll use for the outhaul. We emailed about this back in January but I had to re-read it to see what we did. BUT It had looked like you were missing one of the Ronstan cheek blocks you needed (1 for halyard, 1 for outhaul) and I was supposed to send you a second one along with those other items we discussed. I may have forgot so if you don't have 2 of the RF20121 cheek blocks then I probably did and can send you one right away. 

 

Those screenshots from the boom plan are from the old rigging plan sheet but they are still in the plan. We updated all the Spindrift rigging sheets over the last few years. The boom end is shown in 2 places. One on the Rigging overview sheet and again on the boom detail sheet. 

 

995726882_boomouthauldetail.JPG.87cbc81358ca61ec401f276f3615530b.JPG

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14 minutes ago, Alan Stewart said:

Janice, 

The confusion here is because Don substituted the raacelite 340 block that joe pictures for the ball bearing Ronstan RF20151 cheek blocks on the hardware order. So the one you used for the halyard is the same cheek block that you'll use for the outhaul. We emailed about this back in January but I had to re-read it to see what we did. BUT It had looked like you were missing one of the Ronstan cheek blocks you needed (1 for halyard, 1 for outhaul) and I was supposed to send you a second one along with those other items we discussed. I may have forgot so if you don't have 2 of the RF20121 cheek blocks then I probably did and can send you one right away. 

 

Those screenshots from the boom plan are from the old rigging plan sheet but they are still in the plan. We updated all the Spindrift rigging sheets over the last few years. The boom end is shown in 2 places. One on the Rigging overview sheet and again on the boom detail sheet. 

 

995726882_boomouthauldetail.JPG.87cbc81358ca61ec401f276f3615530b.JPG

Thanks Alan.  I'll get acquainted with your schematics & description above and get back to you via email.  This is helpful. 

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I am glad that the confusion has been cleared up, maybe I can muddy the waters a bit more by discussing how to use those controls.

 

I have recently wondered if we are doing anyone any favors by having the adjustable outhaul when most of the time most people either do not know how to use it or are using it wrong. The most egregious act is to leave off the red line which acts as a cheap version of an outhaul car by keeping the the clew close to the boom and leaving the outhaul to just haul the clew out or in. When the red line is not used, the outhaul can only raise or lower the boom. There is never any need to lower the aft end of the boom as it just brings the boom closer to your head and makes it harder to duck the boom during a tack. It also tightens the leech and drafts the foot too much making the sail set inefficiently. 

 

We only have 4 sail controls. Mainsheet, boom vang, outhaul and downhaul/ halyard. The downhaul is on non reefing sails and the halyard is for reefing sails. To save duplication I will just use downhaul for both rigs.

 

The mainsheet obviously brings the sail in or out but it also controls leech tension and mast bend which effects upper sail draft when close hauled. The outhaul effects the draft of lower region of the sail. the downhaul effects the draft in the forward part of the sail or luff. The boom vang controls sail twist when the mainsheet is eased.

 

When sailing to windward in light air I have no downhaul on and I want the outhaul to give me a modest camber in the foot area of the sail and a slightly eased mainsheet and eased vang. As the wind increases the sail draft starts to move aft so downhaul will be tightened and the mainsheet will be brought in and the outhaul maybe tightened. When I bear away and I don't need to point, I start to power up, as I ease the mainsheet I let out a lot of outhaul, the downhaul will be eased unless the wind is strong. I start to bring on the vang if the is much wind, being careful not to over tighten the leech. When I get to a broad reach, the sail stalled and is no longer an airfoil, I switch to the maximum projected area by tightening the outhaul and downhaul as much as I can.

 

When racing I will pull on the control lines many times and it really helps improve your performance when you get it right but if you are out sailing alone all of this could be as meaningful as shouting while alone in the forest.

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5 hours ago, Designer said:

I am glad that the confusion has been cleared up, maybe I can muddy the waters a bit more by discussing how to use those controls.

 

I have recently wondered if we are doing anyone any favors by having the adjustable outhaul when most of the time most people either do not know how to use it or are using it wrong. The most egregious act is to leave off the red line which acts as a cheap version of an outhaul car by keeping the the clew close to the boom and leaving the outhaul to just haul the clew out or in. When the red line is not used, the outhaul can only raise or lower the boom. There is never any need to lower the aft end of the boom as it just brings the boom closer to your head and makes it harder to duck the boom during a tack. It also tightens the leech and drafts the foot too much making the sail set inefficiently. 

 

We only have 4 sail controls. Mainsheet, boom vang, outhaul and downhaul/ halyard. The downhaul is on non reefing sails and the halyard is for reefing sails. To save duplication I will just use downhaul for both rigs.

 

The mainsheet obviously brings the sail in or out but it also controls leech tension and mast bend which effects upper sail draft when close hauled. The outhaul effects the draft of lower region of the sail. the downhaul effects the draft in the forward part of the sail or luff. The boom vang controls sail twist when the mainsheet is eased.

 

When sailing to windward in light air I have no downhaul on and I want the outhaul to give me a modest camber in the foot area of the sail and a slightly eased mainsheet and eased vang. As the wind increases the sail draft starts to move aft so downhaul will be tightened and the mainsheet will be brought in and the outhaul maybe tightened. When I bear away and I don't need to point, I start to power up, as I ease the mainsheet I let out a lot of outhaul, the downhaul will be eased unless the wind is strong. I start to bring on the vang if the is much wind, being careful not to over tighten the leech. When I get to a broad reach, the sail stalled and is no longer an airfoil, I switch to the maximum projected area by tightening the outhaul and downhaul as much as I can.

 

When racing I will pull on the control lines many times and it really helps improve your performance when you get it right but if you are out sailing alone all of this could be as meaningful as shouting while alone in the forest.

Huh?......🤣   

Sorry Graham, I think I'll have to read this a dozen times while staring at the drawings before I have even the slightest clue what you're talking about.  I'm sure I'll have to sail the boat for a while before I truly "get it".   I'm going to save your quote for a "smarter Jan" in the near future. 😉

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Graham,

I always find your explanations helpful and interesting.  As I encounter them in the forum I try to keep track for future reference when I can actually get back into my CS15 (when the white and ice goes away). In this case, I’ll be sure to pass the info along to the kid-across-the-street who’s building herself a Spindrift 10.  Thanks. 

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Having only met Graham once, in St. Michaels, and staring very long at Carlita, I realized that there's a man who's REALLY serious about his performance. 🙂  And then getting some history from him in the sessions at MASCF you find out why!  His explanation above of the control lines is dead on what someone who's worked mainsail and helm on serious racing keelboats learns, if they pay attention over time.  Getting the right shape on the main for the conditions, the boat, and point of sail is something I'm still puzzling at after 20 years of my own keelboat and crewing on friends' boats.  It's also the source of a fair bit of shouting at times on the race course, so working it out on your own w/ Graham's tips with less noise can be a good thing, or at least more peaceful!  

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