Randy Jones

Alan, Nice job on the Oars. I like the forward rowing position too and it sounds like we take a similar approach to rowing. Are you happy with the 9'-6" oar length? I cut down my 10 foot oars today to 9'-6" and have spent my evening wondering if they'll be too short.

I own a CS 17 and have ridden in a friend's Navigator. The seating arrangements and head/boom clearance in the two boats are quite different. I found the CS seating more comfortable due to the back support and I like that the main sail boom clears the heads of passagers sitting forward. I often sail the CS17 with 3 full sized guys aboard but find it gets cozy with a 4th person. The other possibly important difference is you can row a CS17 but the Navigators seem to need motors. Get a ride in both boats if you can. I'm 3,000 miles away so can't help you with that.

Dave, I've got a CS17 with laced sails and adjustable snotters. I've played with snotter position as a way to control luff tension and trim. It is not real sensitive to position, but you sure don't want to be drilling holes in the wrong spot. What do your new mast weigh? Randy

Love the boat. I'm curious about the hatches. I can't tell from the photos if they're a manufactured product our just plywood. A close up hatch photo would be great when you find the camera.

I've seen SCAMP on the water and it is an impressive little boat. Even sailed my CS17 side by side for just a brief reach and was impressed that SCAMP goes much faster than it should. Also briefly meet John Welsford and the Small Craft Advisors editors. I still perfer the CS17 for lots of reasons, but these are nice people and I'll allow them allow them some latitude in marketing. I'd guess the safety claim probalby has a lot to do with water ballast. Both types are wonderful boats, just different.

Edward, Can't buy your boat, but welcome to the Pacific Northwest. Silverdale will put you in the middle of a lot of good places to sail. Check out our puget sound chapter of the traditional small craft association tsca.net/puget once life settles down. Randy Jones

I thought I would let everyone know the sails have been sold. I received them Friday. All as advertised.

Thanks - I've received an offer to test drive a prototype of a smaller high effeciency electric outboard when it becomes available in a few weeks. It sounds like it may what I'm looking for. I'll also try a 36lb thrust 12V trolling motor suggested by PAR and capture some amps vs boat speed data for comparison. I will post again in about a month when I have something to report.

Is anyone using an electric outboard on a CS17? My ideal motor would be small enough to store out of the way when not needed. I would be happy with 3 knots top speed and I realize that range is always limited relative to gas. The ElectricPaddle electricpaddle.com looks intresting but a little small, Torqeedo looks too large, and the typical electric trolling motors maybe a little inefficient. If you've got something that is working for you - please share.

Rick, I could use those plans if they are still available.

Others on this fourm have great sucess with the third mast step but I had two experiences similar to yours in my CS17. I wrote my trouble off to something unusual about my boat, sails, or sailing skills. My solution has been to add the second row of reef points in each sail and keep sailing as a cat-ketch. I'm sure someone will be along soon to help you out and perhaps I'll figure out what I was doing wrong as well.

Whatever you do, don't use ceader. I'm replacing my ceader rub strips this year with ash or possibly oak.

Bill, Congratulations on the new boat. I bought my cs17 in 2008 and have never regretted it. I recommend you get the plans for the boat from the previous owner because they will come in handy. My rudder has a loop of line used that serves as both up haul and down haul. I've tied a loop in the up haul portion and I simply hook it over the cleat on the tiller that is used for down haul. I like having the rudder up and out of the way when beaching or launching, especially when pushing off the beach. I would think twice before installing a motor, or at least try living without one for a little while. Gas, Brackets, stink, and fouling of the mizzen sheets are serious tradeoffs. Sailing into and out of the dock is not difficult. Rowing when the wind dies is sometimes necessary but very practical if you are only day sailing. I originally thought I'd need a motor but have gotten to like not having one. Happy sailing.

I'm intrested in the sails. How many reef points, what color, age, and condition. Thanks.

Lorne, I'd like to comment on your original question. I've got a CS-17 with laced sails and no battons. My sails are reefed to the foot in a similar method to those with sail track. The reefing process takes a few minutes longer relative to sail track but it is not a big deal. Reefing by rolling sail around the mast appears possible with lacing but it you would have to remove the snotter for reefing and then reinstall it over the rolled up sail. I think reefing to the foot is probalby easier. As pointed out by others, the lack of battons makes it really easy to roll sail and boom around the mast for easy storage. I would no doubt loose a race against a CS17 with battoned sails, but since I've never even seen another CS17 I don't worry about that.

I've got the centerboard of my CS17 out for repairs. The bottom edge is shaped in profile much like the leading edge of an airfoil. Is this the usual shape, or should the bottom have a profile similar to the trailing edge? My thought is that when the board is partially up, the bottom becomes the new trailing edge and should be shaped like a trailing edge. I won't pretend that the extra 1/8th knot of boat speed is important, but I might as well do it correctly. thanks.

Just got my Jan/Feb issue of the magazine "Small Craft Advisor" and found a fine three page article about builiding a CS15. I have no connection to author Stu Whitcomb or the magazine - just thought some of you might be interested.

Jim I've got solid laminated doug fir mast on my CS17. They look great, but with the sail and boom attached they can be a handful to unstep when I'm cold and tired. I would think twice about going solid with a CS20 masts unless you're a youngster.

Here's how an engineer would look at the cooler problem and tell you what you already know. There are three things going on of interest. (1) heat transfer through the wall of the box, (2) mass transfer ie air or water into or out of the box, and (3) heat transfer between items within the box. (1) Heat transfer through the walls is just conduction. The most important variables will be the r-value of the insulation and something called the heat transfer coeffecient at the interior surface of the cooler wall. The coeffecient for water is much higher than air, which means the underwater portion of the cooler will transfer heat faster than the dry upper part. (2) Mass transfer is pretty simple. Air leakage is obviously bad. Draining cold water looses the cooling capacity of the water and replaces it with warm air. (3) heat transfer between items within the box is a bit of a red herring. Blocks of ice last the longest because they have smaller surface area then cubes. They both last longer when kept dry. So using block ice and keeping it dry makes sense, but it comes down to a trade-off when you look at draining water. In an uninsulated box or perhaps even a poorly insulated cooler draining the water would improve performance becasue it dramatically slows down the heat transfer through the walls. In something supper insulated, the change in overall heat transfer associated with draining the water would be less, and might not be worth giving up the remaining cooling capacity of the liquid water.

Neil, Regarding masts, I agree aluminum has every advantage (except appearance) but wooden masts are still feasible. I'm getting along fine with 5 piece laminated solid Douglas Fir masts. My only caution is that the weight of a wooden main mast can be a handful to unstep when you're wet, tired, and cold. I dislike the appearance of aluminum masts so I'm willing to live with the extra weight. Randy

Edward, 8'-8" is the longest oar that fits beneath the rear thwart of my boat while clearing the rear coaming. I didn't built it, so I can't say how closely the seat position follows the plans. Randy

Edward, You are a natural CS17 sailer and didn't need any training from me. As for the name, it never hurts to name it after your wife although I do like the mystery of "42".

Edward, Consider canoe paddles for the kids and two piece oars that you could leave hidden in storage. I'm using carlisle two piece aluminum shafted rafting oars - they are ugly but they have a very strong connection and wouldn't be too bad if I replaced the plastic blades with wood. Assembled length is just under 9 feet. The best part is that the oars fit in the forward seat storage. In practice a CS17 will move in almost no wind. I rather enjoy light air sailing and very rarely row even though I don't carry a motor. A canoe paddle at the dock is sometimes necessary. With a (working) motor I doubt you'll row very often either. I'm probably the only one with this approach but that's what I ended up with when I couldn't find a decent two piece wooden oar. Congratulations on launching the boat. Randy

Edward, My sprits have about a 3/16" hole drilled through them for attachment of the sail clew with a small diameter high strength line. The holes are prependicular to grain and showning no problems after 3 years of use. I've got another hole about 18" inches forward on the boom for the reefed position. I've yet to see another CS17 so I don't know how the others do it. Buy the way, nice photo on your profile. I just noticed - you're in my boat October 2010 in Puget Sound. Keep up the good work and you'll be sailing soon. Randy

I'm sure the folding thing would hold much of the time, but I don't have enough experience to know the limit. I feel naked without a real anchor - but that's my problem.