Design modifications

[Ambler]

It would be interesting to hear about members' modifications, adaptations & departures from the detailed design of boats they have built or acquired. What changes were made, to what extent did they achieve the desired result; what was learned in the process? I'm talking about sharing actual experience with real changes to real boats.

 

Personally I'm specifically interested in Spindrift 12 but I believe any & all shared experience is potentially useful.

[Ken_Potts]

   The single best thing I did was set things up so the boat was easy and quick to setup and launch.  I didn't think anything of going for a sail that was only an hour long because it only me took eleven minutes to get the boat ready to go in the water.

[Charlie Jones]

Over my boat building career, I've built maybe 20 or so boats, both for myself, and for customers. Ranging from a 35 foot ketch rigged trimaran, to a 6'6" Minipaw dinghy. Eight of those have been B and B designs.

 

On the hulls, rig, and foils I don't change ANYTHING, without clearing it with the designer. That is, after all, why you bought his plans- to use HIS expertise. Mine is in building, his in design..

 

Now I HAVE made some changes. I converted (with the design help of B and B ) a CLC John's Sharpie to a trimaran. Made zero changes to the original boat, just added amas.

 

The last B and B MiniPaw dinghy I built, I modified the floatation system by adding sealed tanks, with access openings, which now get used for stowage.

 

On the B and B Princess 22 I built (Pilgrim) I raised the cabin top,, and also the berth tops, since the owner has two knee replacements and the mods gave him easier access.

 

I would not even think of changing foils, hull shape, lengths, etc,etc- would make it a totally different boat, and no longer the designers idea.

 

Here's the biggest, and the latest, which is also the smallest

 

 

[Ambler]

  Quote

That is, after all, why you bought his plans.

 

My reasons for buying Graham's plans, and my use of  them, (unless I violate some copyright) are my own and are personal; private unless I choose to share them and not subject to anyone else's assumptions, definitions or declarations. (In actual fact I didn't buy the plans; they were a delightful present from my loving wife but that's irrelevant and equally no one else's business.)

 

I do hope to hear from folks with details of mods & adaptations they have made; whether those changes achieved the desired result, and what was learned in the process. I'm not so interested in splitting hairs about what amounts, or does not, to a "design change" or interested in what anyone "would never think of doing" unless a) they've actually tried the change and in consequence have decided never to do it again. or (b they can show specific and valid physical reasons for dismissal of the idea.

 

I have great admiration for Graham and Carla and for his design of the little Spindrift 12 (which I am proud to own) as well as for their helpful advice when I was building it. Please DO NOT - anyone - try to suggest otherwise.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Has anyone done anything to allow sailing in shallow water?  I don't mean beaching, but actually sailing in shallow water?

 

I've read about modifications to dagger boards and boxes such that they will rise up if they run aground, also fin keels on displacement boats, has anyone tried anything like that, or anything else?

[Charlie Jones]

Fair enough Ambler. I gave you my own personal thoughts.

 

Curious- what were you trying to accomplish by changing from  a centerboard to a leeboard? Both have definite advantages, and lord I do wish my Sharpie/tri had a center board, instead of a dagger. Often. I sail in SHALLOW water and it's a pain. Broke it off once too. Many many of the boats sailing in events like the Texas 200 ( I've done 4 now) use boats with leeboards. What was your particular reasoning?

 

And yes, Graham and Carla are great folks- I consider them my good friends. Spent a week there after Hurricane Irene helping Graham get the shop back together.

[Ken_Potts]

   "My reasons for buying Graham's plans, and my use of  them, (unless I violate some copyright) are my own and are personal; private unless I choose to share them and not subject to anyone else's assumptions, definitions or declarations."

   "...irrelevant and equally no one else's business."

 

Oops!  We're supposed to share but you're not?  Okey dokey.  Have a nice time building your boat in a vacuum.

[Chick Ludwig]

The Princess 22 has a shallow, full length keel that allows sailing on at least a beam reach (actually a bit better) without increasing depth much. Allowing the c/b down as much as the water depth allows lets her point even better than that. On sandy bottoms, i often would let the board bounce and drag across the bottom to keep as much extension as possible.

[Steve W]

I built my 11N pretty much stock. I am not a designer, although I have made many modifications to production boats over the years. But I usually thought long and hard about them, and often some of my really "great" ideas on further review were not originally in the design for a reason. Now that I've sailed my 11N for a season, I'm looking for a way to cleat the main and I'll probably add a few inches to the tiller. down the road I plan on building a CS20 MK3 and that strikes me as a boat with more opportunities to make personal!

 

Take Care,

Steve

[Mike Vacanti]

I've only built 1 boat and it wasn't a B & B design, it was a Bolger Junebug. The plan calls for planks of closed cell foam in the bow and stern for floatation. Instead, I built air chambers in the bow and stern. Each chamber has a screw in deck plate that I can remove for ventilation and inspection. I would do this again, I think it's a bit lighter and I can use the chambers for small item storage. The design calls for a fixed rudder and I changed to a kick up design. I would definitely do this again. The design had a clip on leeboard that broke the first time it touched bottom. I changed to a Jim Michalak style pivoting leeboard and I'm much happier with it.

[Hirilonde]

  On 7/29/2014 at 8:09 PM, Steve W said:

........................ I'm looking for a way to cleat the main ..........................

This is an issue on the nesting versions.  The ideal place for a swivel block w/cam cleat is in the bottom of the aft section a little aft of the nesting bulkhead.  Unfortunately, now the boat won't nest together.  I secured mine to the aft end of the daggerboard cap.  My board is a slightly snug fit, so it does not lift up when sheeting in.  A simple hold down strap with a quick release (cam or jam cleat) could be used if needed, or a shock chord hold down.

 

[tom151]

  On 7/29/2014 at 1:27 PM, Ken_Potts said:

"My reasons for buying Graham's plans, and my use of  them, (unless I violate some copyright) are my own and are personal; private unless I choose to share them and not subject to anyone else's assumptions, definitions or declarations."

   "...irrelevant and equally no one else's business."

 

Oops!  We're supposed to share but you're not?  Okey dokey.  Have a nice time building your boat in a vacuum.

+1

Good on ya Ken!

Like how your SIG applies

[Ambler]

  On 7/29/2014 at 4:51 AM, Charlie Jones said:

Fair enough Ambler

Charlie: Fair enough is fair enough!

 

My reasons for going with an external pivoting board were several, probably including some I've forgotten. Chief among them were:

 

- Desire for more unobstructed room in the cockpit (heavily influenced by my age and increasing lack of agility. In fact I would do away with the centre seat if I didn't need it for rowing.)

- Past experience with a leaky C/B case that I never managed to cure.

- Concern with the possibility of damaging the hull/case if striking an u/w obstacle with a dagger board.

 

Please be aware that I have no interest in competitive sailing or in squeezing the maximum performance out of the boat. It was built solely for my own uses and my own satisfaction. I enjoy experimenting with it and utterly reject any notion that .... well, I'm getting wound up again but you probably get my meaning

 

Difficulties with the board have been in recovery after knockdown – discussed elsewhere but again involving agility issues – and with the system for lowering/raising the board. I've been using ropes but it's hard to get an efficient arrangement that never gets tangled or snagged. I think a straightforward lever would be better and I may try that in due course.

[Charlie Jones]

LOL- Understand the age thing. I'm 73 now and moving a bit slower than I did 10 years ago. The Texas 200 last month tired me more than it has before, that's for sure

[Ambler]

  On 7/29/2014 at 1:27 PM, Ken_Potts said:

Oops!  We're supposed to share but you're not?  Okey dokey.  Have a nice time building your boat in a vacuum.

Ken & Frank: This is puzzling to me and pretty sarky-snarky; a complete misreading of me and a misinterpretation of my post.

 

It happens, I guess; too bad.

[Ambler]

  On 7/29/2014 at 1:27 PM, Ken_Potts said:

Oops!  We're supposed to share but you're not?  Okey dokey.  Have a nice time building your boat in a vacuum.

 

Ken: This is puzzling to me; a complete misreading of me and a misinterpretation of my post.

It happens on forums I guess.

 

  On 7/30/2014 at 12:27 AM, tom151 said:

 

+1

Good on ya Ken!

Like how your SIG applies

 

 

Ken & Tom151: If the "sig" and Tom's comment on it were directed at me - as they pretty obviously seem to be - they'd be just about the worst example I've seen on this forum, of deliberate personal insult.

Too bad.

Way too bad.

[Ambler]

  On 7/27/2014 at 1:47 AM, Ken_Potts said:

   The single best thing I did was set things up so the boat was easy and quick to setup and launch.  I didn't think anything of going for a sail that was only an hour long because it only me took eleven minutes to get the boat ready to go in the water.

11 minutes is pretty impressive. What boat have you, & what did you do to make this possible? Do you keep it on a trailer or what? Conditions at my local ramp - congestion and lack of a dock where I can rig the boat - make things awkward. Luckily a friend lets me moor at his dock for most of the summer, plus I'm retired and can avoid sailing at the weekends with their mobs of not-always-considerate powerboaters.

 

"People understand me so poorly that they don't even understand my complaint about them not understanding me." (Soren Kierkegaard)

[Ambler]

  On 7/29/2014 at 8:09 PM, Steve W said:

...... I'll probably add a few inches to the tiller.

Ha! Half the time my tiller is too short, the other half it's too long. Who's got a good design for a telescoping or folding tiller on a small sailboat? What are pros & cons of different types?

[PAR]

Make a tiller extension, which can be fold back when not in use. DuckWorks has the hardware and it's cheap. All you need is a 3/4" or 1" dowel and you're good to go.

 

As to design modifications, I've made lots of them, often on each build. The more experienced you get, the more set in your ways you become about the way things "should be", so you change it. This isn't an approach I recommend for the novice, but experienced builders do it all the time.

[Ambler]

  On 7/31/2014 at 12:34 AM, PAR said:

Make a tiller extension, which can be fold back when not in use. DuckWorks has the hardware and it's cheap. All you need is a 3/4" or 1" dowel and you're good to go.

Good information PAR, thanks. I'm pondering the relative pros & cons of the tiller "stick" vs a straight telescopic extension; would be interested to hear others' thoughts & - especially - experience. I guess the size as well as the use of the boat  would have a bearing on the which to choose.