CS-15 CS-17 or CS-20 - Keeping the Rain Out

[ZendoDeb]

The Anderson Bailer will handle spray (or some rain) while on the move.  What do you do about serious rainfall?  Either while underway, or beached/anchored?

Not that I ever plan on sailing in bad weather, but it can sneak up you pretty fast in Florida.

(I am probably looking most closely at the 17 all things considered, but the other 2 are still interesting, but for different reasons.)

[Peter HK]

What do you do about serious rainfall?  Either while underway, or beached/anchored?

[Tom Lathrop]

An Andersen bailer can handle any amount of rain that I have ever encountered.  I do remember one hailstorm that we lowered the sails and hid under the main. 

[Hirilonde]

There are only 2 reasons for a cockpit cover that I can think of really.  One is to stay dry, the other to keep the boat afloat at a mooring when checking up on it is difficult.  Other than those 2 points the responders above have provided all I could have contributed to this thread.

[ecgossett]

I enjoyed the photos of the camping out on the boat. Maybe this is not the appropriate place to ask it but when people are camping just overnight on beaches, islands, etc, some of which may be parks or national this that the other thing, do most people pay/register/etc or just camp?

Around cumberland sound we have some islands that are kinda sorta controlled by the park as in your supposed to register and pay a fee to camp, but if you are on a beach or tidal area does it change?

I don't mean to put anyone on in a spot by asking this. I know from my experience my Hobie was briefly left in a Marina overnight twice without registering (the office was closed), because wind/tide conditions did not permit me to get it down the river to the ramp. Other times when I had a 25' C&C at the marine cruisers did come in at night find an empty slip and leave first thing in the morning without registering. I know at Cumberland Island it was painful registering for the remote campground to go by sailboat. The park was used to kayakers not a sailer pulling in, and wanted to charge me ferry fees and require I check in with the ranger 12 miles down the Island, where as kayakers check in at the main office.

V/R Edward

[Apteryx]

If I use the facilities I always hike to the gatekeeper and pay.  If I sail to a cove and anchor where the shore happens to be a for-fee camp but don't use the facilities, I generally don't pay.  Not that I'm against supporting parks, it's just leaving my boat for a hike and reconnoiter I wasn't planning on is usually more than I want to do.

I plan to do as much of that stuff as possible when I complete my Core Sound.  No mere daysailer, her, she's going a-voyaging!  ;D

Actually, my plans are working out pretty well, I think.  This year I'm not getting to the water like I'd like - but messing about with garage and boat projects is keeping me sane.  I think.  :-\

[Brent]

Some of my best ever sails required wearing foul weather gear.  I have been out in conditions where the steady rain and spray made a continuous river down my rain suit and into the bilge, only to be slurped out by the steady song of the bailers.

During one particular storm a knock down filled water up to the top of the seats, which the bailers drew out in less than five minutes.  But of course the boat was screaming on at double digits speed while the thirty plus knots of wind blew over and the storm gradually exhausted itself.

A simple tent over the forward section keeps me dry while sleeping out.  I used to carry a tent for pitching on shore, but found I used it less as conditions on board where developed to the point of being very comfortable.  The boat has become completely self contained eliminating the need to step on shore.  I do enjoy setting foot on land to explore, but tend to spend the nights out on the hook. 

[ecgossett]

The only problem I've had in a downpour with 40-50 knot gusts was the GPS started cutting out in hard rain. My lesson learned was to rely more upon my compass in such courses, which up to that time I rarely looked at.

The issue was coming in Cumberland Sound the entrance markers to the St. Marys river can be confusing unless you know the chart, have a GPS or have done it a few times. In the rain with no visibility I was very worried about overshooting the turn and winding up on some shoals to the north.

[Apteryx]

I'm very interested in hearing about how Core Sound 17s perform in heavy conditions, and intend to work towards controlling the boat when the wind is stronger than light-hearted fun.

Obviously skills vary and there's no way to tell about a boat short of first-hand experience, but a personal goal of mine is to sail in 30 knots without curling up into a fetal position.

Twenty knots, as in twenty actual knots measured with an accurate instrument (feels like 40), is a handful in many boats.

Thirty knots is a whole bunch of wind and I think should be considered very serious conditions.  Given common sense, experience, practice in lesser conditions, and a keen interest in survival, a CS17 in 30 knots and non-confused seas is manageable?

[tom151]

Thirty knots is a whole bunch of wind and I think should be considered very serious conditions.  Given common sense, experience, practice in lesser conditions, and a keen interest in survival, a CS17 in 30 knots and non-confused seas is manageable?

In the absence of other responses... and my opinion only... if you're going to go sailing to try to push the limits of a boat beyond those of your or others experience who can inform you, then you should prepare your self and the boat for survival conditions - simply because you actually don't know at what level/ under what conditions you'll  exceed the boats capacity. Whether that's 30kts or 40kts or 50kts at some point you'll reach it - planned or unplanned.

Besides needing to be able to get all sail completely down (and maybe the masts too) I'd want to be prepared to deploy a drogue to gain control of the boat.

My feeling is that an unballasted boat will need to be able to deploy a drogue from a bridle so that the drag force can be aligned to keep the boat settled and prevent the wind/wave action from lifting he boat off the water and turtling me.

In those conditions I'd want 5 anchor points - 2 at the aft corners, 2 more amidships, and one at the bow. That would give me 4 or 5 different rigging settings and would insure being able to set the drogue on any compass heading from dead ahead to dead aft.

A proper drogue should be able to adjust the drag force to match the conditions - giving the ability to get the boat speed matched to the wave conditions.

My 2 cents, and I'll be doing the same as you,

TomH

[Brent]

Sailing single handed I find somewhere around 20 knots the sailing becomes less fun and more work,  although I have been known to go out in such conditions for some really fine broad reaching.  I have been caught out in higher winds during squalls, but I tend to carefully consider how bad I want it if the day is going to be steady above 20 knots.

The boat does sail very nicely reefed - and we have blasted through some very windy conditions that way.  I do a fair amount of multi day explorations in the boat, and in those situations one must deal with what nature gives.

[Tom Lathrop]

Thirty knots is a whole bunch of wind and I think should be considered very serious conditions.  Given common sense, experience, practice in lesser conditions, and a keen interest in survival, a CS17 in 30 knots and non-confused seas is manageable?

In the absence of other responses... and my opinion only... if you're going to go sailing to try to push the limits of a boat beyond those of your or others experience who can inform you, then you should prepare your self and the boat for survival conditions - simply because you actually don't know at what level/ under what conditions you'll  exceed the boats capacity. Whether that's 30kts or 40kts or 50kts at some point you'll reach it - planned or unplanned.

Besides needing to be able to get all sail completely down (and maybe the masts too) I'd want to be prepared to deploy a drogue to gain control of the boat.

My feeling is that an unballasted boat will need to be able to deploy a drogue from a bridle so that the drag force can be aligned to keep the boat settled and prevent the wind/wave action from lifting he boat off the water and turtling me.

In those conditions I'd want 5 anchor points - 2 at the aft corners, 2 more amidships, and one at the bow. That would give me 4 or 5 different rigging settings and would insure being able to set the drogue on any compass heading from dead ahead to dead aft.

A proper drogue should be able to adjust the drag force to match the conditions - giving the ability to get the boat speed matched to the wave conditions.

My 2 cents, and I'll be doing the same as you,

TomH

In my best day, I'd never be found so far from some shore in a small boat like the CS that a drogue would be needed.  I've been caught out in thunderstorms though that blasted me, crew and boat.  Winds, in some cases went over 50 but then, usually so did I ;D ;D  This always occurred in races because of following the logic of statement one.  With sails down and proper seamanship, I can't think of a case where a drogue would be needed.  An anchor has been used to ride out a storm though.  One thing that may be of interest is that the Bay River Skiff could be sailed under mizzen alone.  In that condition she would still tack on demand and was docile to handle as well as being able to hold her own against 15kts of wind.  It works so well that it is the way I always approached a landing or boat ramp.  Give it a try and it may save some embarrassment in a tight situation.

[wkisting]

I keep a raincoat, rainpants, and waterproof hat (with broad brim) in the locker to deal with rain. Works fine, and as Ray mentioned earlier, the Anderson Bailer drains residual water very quickly. I bought a little 12" wide squeegee (used to dry windows streak-free) for about $5 that I use to scrape water quickly toward the Bailer, as some of it tends to sit a little forward of the thwart position where my bailer is installed. Works very nicely.

About heavy conditions: I'm a very inexperienced sailor, but have found the CS20 to be a brilliant sailing vessel because of how much control the main/mizzen split rig offers. Dumping the main makes her pop up from a steep heel in an instant, so by my ninth outing in the boat, I found myself confident enough to sail alone in what was later measured by a nearby weather station as 24 kts winds. I had to be vigilant and I chose to hold the main sheet in my hand (not cleated off) for quick release if I heeled too far, but I was cruising around in full sail (no reefs, with sails slightly oversized and rigged with battens), at speeds usually around 8 - 10 knots. I found that sailing upwind at a steep angle (about 45 degrees off of straight upwind) resulted in a nice, easy pace of about 5 knots, and eased the intensity of the very large waves rolling into me. But it was a very wet ride.

For what it's worth, I think 12 - 15 knots is the ideal windspeed for enjoying the CS20 on our lake--at least that's my impression after 13 sailing outings in our CS, in widely varying conditions.

[Ken_Potts]

  I'm hesitant to say whether I've sailed in 30 knot winds.  I don't have the equipment to measure wind speed on my CS17 because it's a lightweight boat without a cabin or ballast (besides the cooler) and I haven't got an electrical system etc.  Also, when the wind starts blowing the tops off the waves I tend to stop taking pictures and reading gps and just SAIL. 

  I can say with some small amount of confidence that I've sailed singlehanded in gusts that were over 30 knots but to say I sailed is stretching it.  When the big gusts hit me when I'm alone I pretty much hang on until I feel good about sailing again.  Add one person to the boat and the game changes.  I can sail in a bunch more wind with another person on board (obviously).

  I'm not sure I can think of a single unballasted small sailboat that would be fun to sail in seriously big winds.  Maybe that's because I'm a weeny, but can you give an example of a boat that would work well in such conditions?  I bet the CS17 would beat it in lighter airs.   Where I normally sail I tend to see big sustained winds only when there's a hurricane nearby - Mostly when the temperature here is good for sailing the winds are not.

  I can't remember where you live but if you're not too far from central NC come on up for a sail in my boat.  It's too late in the sailing season for really good wind but you might find you really like (or dislike) the boat by hopping aboard someone else's for a day.

  I sail my boat fairly often (including when there are tropical storms or hurricanes not far away) but I've never been in enough wind in my boat that I was worried about surviving (Alone or with a friend).  I've been in a lot of wind, I just don't know the number of knots.