Building a boat

[BillBrush]

Hello everyone.  Utter newbie here, so I'll try to keep the stupid questions to a minimum, but I'm sure to make a few gaffs along the way.  I originally posted these questions on another sailing forum I read with no response so I thought I'd try them here since this seems more geared to small to medium boats.

I have a semi-long term plan for my sailing which bears on this discussion. I was the recipient of a Sea Snark hull in late summer and got my first taste of sailing in about 2 weeks later after fabricating all the parts it was missing (everything but the hull and the mast step). I have enjoyed my little boat immensely, and dubbed her the "Duckling" because she's not pretty, nor especially fast, but she's kind of cute in an awkward sort of way. (FYI I have all of about $65 invested in her and that includes the PFD's, so pretty much the ultimate in affordable entry to sailing) I have promised my wife that she will get a new house before I get a new boat, and knowing how things work I've decided to buy another Snark (Sunchaser II) after the house to get something we can all go out in quickly, cheaply, and easy to move and sail. That will also get me a  rig slightly more complicated than the lateen.

After getting the Sunchaser II I want to build my own boat in the mid-sized daysailer category. I've been looking at a lot of plans and most of the ones I'm seeing are gaff rig, which I can only assume is due to it being an easier rig to fabricate since the booms, spars, and masts are shorter. A lot of the commercial boats I see are Bermuda sloop rigs. I am looking to build something in the 16' range with a small cabin. One plan that is close to what I want is the Stevenson Weekender, which you are all obviously quite familiar with.

I live in Nebraska so this is strictly for fresh water and small lake use. I figure it will take me at least 3-5 years to complete the project.

Question 1: How does a gaff rig compare to a sloop in ease of sail and performance?

Question 2: Is there something close to what I am looking for that is a sloop rig?

Question 3: For puttering around a lake does the rig type really matter? I don't see myself really getting into racing, but after reading a great deal about travellers, boom vangs, topping lifts, spinakers, and such I may have an inflated sense of their necessity.

Question 4: What am I not taking into account?

As far as building a boat goes, I've never done one, but I have spent years building other things of various and sundry types from restoring a classic car, to remodeling a house, to making small woodworking pieces.  So I have confidence I can pull something like this off.

Thank you for your help.

Bill

[Konrad]

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary..   

Answer 1:  I have found that my Vacationer will not point with the plastic boats, but in winds up to about 13 mph, not a single one of them stands a chance downwind against an unballasted boat like a Stevenson boat.  Bear in mind that any "racing" you'll find around here is pretty low key, and is done mostly to produce camp fire fodder.  I went from racing beach cats to casually sailing the Vacationer, and it's (obviously) vastly different.  Don't build a plywood boat for racing.  Build it for the personal satisfaction and the guaranteed-every-time-you-take-it-out positive feedback from others.

Answer 2:  Perhaps, but I don't know what.

Answer 3:   The gaff rig looks like a million bucks, has a lower center of effort, and is just plain shippy.  Ask the question to a dozen folks, and you'll get almost as many different answers.  Each rig has its benefits.

Answer 4:  You need to take into account what your real goal is.  What do you ultimately want your boat to do for you?  Windward performance?  Personal achievement/satisfaction?  Economical way to get on the water?  Easy first-time build?  Sleep-aboard?  Classic lines?  You get the idea.

One advantage with a Stevenson boat that you personally have is a small local group of us around you that have already built and launched.  Most builders don't have that resource.  There's also a Weekender up in Omaha, but you'll have to ask Mike what his name is.  So that's somethng to consider.  (I'm biased towards these boats, of course.  But with a realistic understanding of what they were meant to be.)  Mike, Arlen, and myself would love to have another pirate ship in our midst. 

[BillBrush]

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.. 

Answer 1:  I have found that my Vacationer will not point with the plastic boats, but in winds up to about 13 mph, not a single one of them stands a chance downwind against an unballasted boat like a Stevenson boat.  Bear in mind that any "racing" you'll find around here is pretty low key, and is done mostly to produce camp fire fodder.  I went from racing beach cats to casually sailing the Vacationer, and it's (obviously) vastly different.  Don't build a plywood boat for racing.  Build it for the personal satisfaction and the guaranteed-every-time-you-take-it-out positive feedback from others.

Realistically speaking it would take an exceptional set of circumstances for a wooden boat to be faster than a fiberglass boat, so I have no illusions about that.  It sounds like the gaff rig is a nice stable cruising rig that gives reasonable performance.  I'm too new to sailing to have any delusions about being the next Dennis Connor.  :-)

Answer 4:  You need to take into account what your real goal is.  What do you ultimately want your boat to do for you?  Windward performance?  Personal achievement/satisfaction?  Economical way to get on the water?  Easy first-time build?  Sleep-aboard?  Classic lines?  You get the idea.

I just love to build things I've never built before, and it's the satisfaction of doing something that most people wouldn't even attempt that motivates me to try projects like this.  I realized this back when I was a kid and I would build models.  Once they were built I lost interest in them.  It was the build process that I loved, not being done with it and having it.  If it's something I can continue to tinker with after it's done, then that's the best.  I have a tendency, which occasionally gets me into trouble, to never build something the the same way twice.  Combine this with a near life-long desire to sail and it's a short jump from building parts for the Sea Snark to building something bigger.  I blame "Carry on Mr. Bowditch" for my sailing bug, but when I was very young I spent a lot of time at the lake and on boats and I've never lost that love of open water.  :-)  I could probably find cheaper ways to get into the water, but there's nothing like the satisfaction of having somebody come by and say "nice xxxxxx" and being able to reply "Thanks, I built it myself."  I restored a 68 GTO in high school and that was a good formative experience. 

One advantage with a Stevenson boat that you personally have is a small local group of us around you that have already built and launched.  Most builders don't have that resource.  There's also a Weekender up in Omaha, but you'll have to ask Mike what his name is.  So that's somethng to consider.  (I'm biased towards these boats, of course.  But with a realistic understanding of what they were meant to be.)  Mike, Arlen, and myself would love to have another pirate ship in our midst. 

Believe me, that is a very positive factor.  Maybe if I offer to help Arlen would be motivated to finish his, and I'd get some experience.  If you guys ever need crew let me know.  My kids keep me pretty busy during the summer, and we hope to sell our house next summer but I would love to go out on a boat I can actually stand up in.   

Bill

[Frank Hagan]

Bill, you won't find anything quite so satisfying as launching a boat you build; I count five or six days as the best in my life, and launching my boat was one of those.

The gaff rig does have a "lower center of effort" as Konrad says.  In a practical sense, that means the sail is wider, so the mast isn't as tall.  That's a great advantage in a small boat that you want to trailer around and rig yourself.  The Weekender has a very quick rig time; you can literally rig her in about 15 minutes and be backing down the ramp (my slightly larger boat, with a bermudan rig, takes a full 45 minutes to rig). 

Other easy to rig boats, and probably better sailing boats, are the cat-ketch designs of Graham Byrnes of B&B Yacht Designs.  His Bellhaven 19 is a 19' boat, but a harder build than a Weekender or Vacationer (it has 300# of ballast, an important consideration if you are ever going to be on the open water).  For the extra time and cost, you would get a better boat.  But like all things boat-related, only you can determine if the extra time and cost is worth it.

If your plan is to have a boat for small lakes that is quick to build and fun to sail, the Weekender is a pretty good boat.  I sure enjoyed mine until I moved up and like your first love, I don't think any boat will give me as much pleasure as she did while I was building and sailing her.

[Charlie Jones]

Realistically speaking it would take an exceptional set of circumstances for a wooden boat to be faster than a fiberglass boat, so I have no illusions about that. 

Don't be so sure about that.. Some of the very highest performance sailing boats are wooden. Cold molded or vacuum bagged, but wooden. Wood doesn't fatigue like fiberglass or other materials does, so the boats remain stiffer. Done carefully you can wind up with a lighter boat, and thus more competitive.

Do some browsing at this site- The Gougeon's online EpoxyWorks magazine for some very interesting articles-

http://www.epoxyworks.com/indexprojects.html

Oh, and having built 6 of the B and B designs so far, plus having built a Weekender, I have to agree with Frank. The boats from B and B yacht designs are far and away better SAILBOATS that the Weekender. The Weekender has a certain "look" that appeals, but if you want a really good sailboat, go to the B and B site and take a look.

[lewisboats]

Just a bit of clarification on some of the terms here...A sloop is a boat with a main sail and a jib...regardless of what shape the main sail is. You can have a Gaff sloop, a bermudan (or Jib headed) sloop, a gunter sloop, a sprit sloop or any other mainsail confiruration that permits the use of a single foresail. A Cutter has two foresails and the mast is generally stepped further aft than in a sloop but you still have the option of having various types of main sail. The use of a Spinnaker doesn't turn a Sloop into a Cutter tho. Now that the technicals are over...where in NE are you (I live is Soux City IA, just across the Misery from S. Sioux City NE)

Steve

[Konrad]

plastic fantastics

How can you not love this guy...? 

[Hirilonde]

Answer 4:  You need to take into account what your real goal is.  What do you ultimately want your boat to do for you?  Windward performance?  Personal achievement/satisfaction?  Economical way to get on the water?  Easy first-time build?  Sleep-aboard?  Classic lines?  You get the idea.

I think you really need to start here.  Without a good description of what "your" boat should be the other questions are some what meaningless.  It is easy to be distracted by details when you don't have a good general description of where you want to be.  All boats are a compromise.  You will hear that over and again.  It is easier to sift through these compromises when you have decided what is important to you.

There is a wealth of resources here to help you, give them a few guidelines to go by and you will be swamped with useful advice.

[Charlie Jones]

[quote author=Hirilond

[Konrad]

You did mention the aspect of a "perpetual project", so to speak.  I think just about any wooden boat would (or should) fall into that category.  I know I've put in some serious man hours into my Vacationer in the last 2 months, and mine's 9 years old. 

[capt jake]

I just love to build things I've never built before, and it's the satisfaction of doing something that most people wouldn't even attempt that motivates me to try projects like this.  I realized this back when I was a kid and I would build models.  Once they were built I lost interest in them.  It was the build process that I loved, not being done with it and having it.  If it's something I can continue to tinker with after it's done, then that's the best.  I have a tendency, which occasionally gets me into trouble, to never build something the the same way twice.  Combine this with a near life-long desire to sail and it's a short jump from building parts for the Sea Snark to building something bigger.

It always amazes me how the internet gives other people the ability to ready my mind.   that pretty much states my thoughts.

[Ken_Potts]

"Answer 4:  You need to take into account what your real goal is.  What do you ultimately want your boat to do for you?  Windward performance?  Personal achievement/satisfaction?  Economical way to get on the water?  Easy first-time build?  Sleep-aboard?  Classic lines?  You get the idea."

  In my opinion this really is the most important thing.  Years ago I wanted to build a nice big liveaboard yacht that I could sail all over the world in without leaving my living room.  I started researching different designs and the boat kept getting smaller due to budgetary issues.  I eventually went out and learned how to weld so I could get started on my 28' steel boat but when I looked at what boat I could realistically use (when am I ever going to take 5 years off work?) the boat got smaller.  Eventually I ended up building my little 17 foot trailer sailer and I get to go sailing all the time (unlike a co-worker of mine who spends her weekends driving to the coast to perform maintenance on her absolutely beautiful 34 footer).  I can day sail or camp out on beaches or soon I'll be able to sleep aboard the boat in my boat-tent.

  Your mention of really liking the building process in and of itself compels me to offer this warning - Whatever you do, DON'T build the boat that's perfect for your use.  You need an excuse to build another one.  Build the boat you like right now and once you've sailed it a bit you'll know what to build next - Just make sure you don't sail too much before starting the next one or you'll mess up and build the perfect boat the second time around ;D

[BillBrush]

I finally got a break from everything around the house.  Bad weekend for my wife to be sick with my niece visiting and the house a disaster area from previous whirlwinds of activity.

First off, thank you for all the feedback.  I learned a lot from it, and if I hit a sore point with any of you about the whole plywood/plastic thing, please accept my apologies and I ask that you attribute it to ignorance and not that I was disparaging anyone's boat. 

Here's what I've learned, in no particular order.  This is combined with what I learned on the BYYB board, with an especial nod of awe and respect to the frighteningly skilled Paul Ricelli.

Plywood boats, when properly designed, built, and skippered are the equal of any ship on the seven seas.

All boats are compromises.

Gaff rigs are quicker to prep for launch than a Bermuda (aka Marconi) rig (what I had erroneously called a sloop rig, boy I hope I got that right.)  This is an absolute deal closer for me on the type of rig as I want to be out there making a fool out of myself, not tightening cables.

The B&B boats are superior to the Stevenson family in some respects although the exact reasons were not enumerated exhaustively.  I now know what a cat ketch is, and why they are not used much, and what some of their advantages are.

I'm not the only one that enjoys the process as much or more than the finished product.

The Weekender family have a sub-optimal keel for their size, and would have better pointing if it was modified by making it smaller at the forefoot and having more of a blade around the CE, like a daggerboard or a swing-keel.  The downside of that would be a deeper draft, lost cabin space, and a somewhat changed profile, in addition to potentially changed "ride."  It apparently also means that their pointing issues increase with the wind strength as they are pushed windward instead of cutting across, or into a wind.  The upside of this sub-optimal keel is ease of operation, a striking aesthetic profile, ability to land on any beach, a larger cabin area, and the potential to surprise people who are unaware of the design's downwind capabilities.  (That whole compromise thing rearing it's head.)  I'm sure I have missed some of the points on this and perhaps I've made a complete hash out of the whole treatise, but reading some of Paul's posts is like trying to drink from a fire hose.

Launching your own boat is immensely satisfying.

My initial conclusions.

From a design standpoint I think I am, at least for now, sold on the Weekender, although I might try a dinghy or such ahead of time.  If the economy goes too far South I may be stuck in my current house for longer than I'd like which means my agreement with my wife is going to come back to haunt me.  :  Maybe I can sneak in a Mini Cup.  The B&B designs I think I will avoid if they're markedly more complex for a first time build, and at least the 19 and up are more boat than I need.  At this point I don't even have anything to tow a real boat with.

I am intending (that may be too strong a word) on forming the keel with either a chamfer or a radius along the edges for aesthetic reasons, and perhaps give it a little less drag.  While I don't expect anything dramatic out of my minor changes, it just seems as though it should be in more of a foil shape.  I'm envisioning a v-shaped bow, and a rounded bottom keel.  Would there be any detrimental effects of doing this that I should be aware of?  Has anyone tried adding a bilge keel along the chine of a Weekender to see if it helped pointing?

Apparently a topsail is advantageous in light winds, so I may at some point give one a try as the winds around here can give new meaning to "light and variable."

What I want from a boat is something that I can take the whole family out in, is easy to sail, quick to get in and out of the water, economical to build, forgiving of a newbie sailor,  and able to be fabricated by someone new to boat building.  In my trademark fashion I'm breaking with family tradition by going with a sailboat instead of a powerboat.    I like all boats, but there's just something primal about a wind-powered vessel that appeals to me. 

Not a bad bit of learning considering I spent a good portion of my day cleaning and steering the wee ones away from the shoals.  ;D  (Unless of course I got it all wrong, in which case I blame fatigue.  )

Bill

PS, So has anyone ever fitted their home-built boat with a ship's bell? 

[Ken_Potts]

  Hey Bill,

  I don't think you offended anyone with your plastic vs plywood comment.  I think people just chimed in because they've got fond memories of cruising along past production boats while the opposing skipper tried hard to keep up    One good example of a fast plywood boat can be found by searching for "Southern Skimmer" in the B and B area of this forum.  Truly a sight to behold.

  It sounds like you're having a good time with the decision process of which boat is right for you.  In my book that's a good thing.  I know people who've spent years playing around with which boat is the right one to build (Wait a minute - I AM one of those guys).  Though I haven't built a Weekender or Vacationer or Pocket Cruiser I've followed lots of builds on this forum and I don't think there's much difference in the difficulty of building the Stevenson's designs and the B and B designs.  I hope somebody like Ray F who has built both will chime in, but I wouldn't discount a B and B design as too complex - At their core they are good sailors and simple boats.  If you like the Weekender more that's the boat for you (and I look forward to regular posts of your build) but don't be scared away from the B and B boats because they seem to be complex builds - They really arent.

  And my little unstayed cat-ketch takes a little under 10 minutes to rig...

  I hope this doesn't sound like a sales pitch.  As many wise people have said - Boats are a compromise.  I like the Stevenson's designs and the B and B designs (and the Welsford designs and... etc) but I'm currently living with a B and B design that I love dearly and I'd hate to see you discount them as too complex when (I believe) they are the essence of simplicity.  Pick the boat you like (sounds like the Weekender) and enjoy the build!

  And post pics!

  As far as rounding the keel of the Weekender goes there are some high-powered design guys on this forum who can address the issue better than I can but I think the really low-aspect keel on the weekender probably gets a little help from the squared-off section and making the keel round might be counter-productive.  I'm prepared to be totally wrong in that thinking though, so you should wait for others to chime in.

[Charlie Jones]

The cat ketch rig fell into disfavor with "yachtsmen" because the racing rules got modified to make it less than competitive. Some years ago a boat named "Cascade" appeared on the racing circuit and in the first year, totally wiped up in races she entered. Thus the next year the ruling bodies changed rules to handicap the type so heavily that they just faded away.

The sloop rig is so highly favored today almost completely due to racing rules, NOT necessarily because it's inherently better. To weather it is, but to weather is the holy grail of racing. Cruising and small boat people need not get so tied to that that they let that rule choices.

And we own and sail a 25 foot ballasted sloop- she's now 47 years old. We also sail a pair of lateen rigged boats and a cat ketch. Different boats for different things.

Definitely NOT from any thing wrong with the rig. They were evolved by working boatmen because they were a fast, easily handled rig adaptable to various boats, and could be sailed with a shorthanded crew, or single hand. Remember- when they we in vogue, they were working boats- working boats went out when yachtsmen were shivering by the fire.

Pretty much the same thing happened with catamarans. Nat Hereshoff designed and built one WAY back and raced it against the New York Yacht club boats. Actually he designed and built two. He kicked their collective butts, so they outlawed the boat. Set multihulls back 50 years.

As I said, I've built a a Weekender, and three of the larger B and B boats. A Princess 22, a Core Sound 20 and a Core Sound 17, plus 2 Birder kayaks and a minipaw.

I'd rate the B and B boats as easier to build. The Weekender you must remember, was designed in the early 60s as a boat you could build in your backyard, and the plans were published in a magazine. MUCH of the construction is way far away from accepted boat building techniques or practices. Much of the build recommendations are not really a good way to build a boat. Peter used a lot of landsman terminology and techniques BECAUSE it was aimed at non boatbuilders. Not bad, just not the best way. Also remember that the Weekender is a LITTLE boat. It is, after all, a 16 footer and has a tiny cabin. The spaces between the seats in the cockpit are narrow. Nothing wrong with small- I prefer small boats. Just be aware of this in your choice making.

For another thing, lumber yard plywood quality has deteriorated so badly since those plans came out, that should you build with it, frankly, you are building with junk wood and wasting your hours- you'll have an inferior boat. I wouldn't build a pram dinghy with any of the US made plywood I've seen in the last few years. In fact, I recently was buying ply for a rebuild on a large trimaran. When I looked at the 1/2 "marine"ply they were selling ( at 52 bucks a sheet) I rejected it- stuff was FOUR ply!!!! Warp city- no way that stuff could be stabilised. I drove 200 miles the other way and bought Hydrotec, at a slightly higher cost, but significantly better wood.

IF you decide a Weekender is the boat for you, and they ARE neat boats, at least build it with the best quality wood you can get DON"T cut corners buying cheapie plywood. Use epoxy to build with- it'll stay with you longer.

The most expensive thing you'll put into the boat is your own life hours. You CANNOT earn more of those. When you get done, you'll look back and wish you'd done it with the best, because the boat will deserve it.

And I still maintain that if you really want a Weekender, then for YOUR stated uses, the Vacationer would be a better boat.

[Frank Hagan]

You mention a boat the "whole family" can sail in ... how big is your family?  The reason I ask is that, in my experience, the Weekender is too small for more than two adults and two SMALL children.  Get four adults that weigh from 160 to 230 in it and one has to be in the cabin for trim purposes, and the three in the cockpit are always moving around like Archie and Meathead trying to go through a doorway (from the old "All in the Family" show).  The Vacationer is a bigger boat that might be better for family sailing.

The cabinless design is probably better for four adults day sailing, but then once you give up the neat little cabin you open yourself up to some other designs like the Core Sound series (even easier to build, rig and much better sailing boats according to those who have built and sailed both). 

Finally, I'm not sure I agree with Paul regarding the forefoot being too large on the Weekender.  I've always thought that the real secret in the Weekender's surprising performance is that large deep forefoot that balances off the high aspect rudder, making it tack about as effectively as if it had a centerboard.  Phil Bolger had a similar design, albeit with a huge centerboard nearly at the bow and a high aspect rudder aft, that was featured in a Wooden Boat magazine a few years back. 

As designed, the Weekender is a fun little boat, and if you have other Weekenders near you, you have a built in group of people to sail with (but then most sailors welcome anyone to their ranks; the Potter group I sometimes sail with has several Montgomery's that come to embarrass us).  But if you have 4 adult-sized people who will want to sail with you, and that's important, I think its too small.

[BillBrush]

You mention a boat the "whole family" can sail in ... how big is your family?  The reason I ask is that, in my experience, the Weekender is too small for more than two adults and two SMALL children.  Get four adults that weigh from 160 to 230 in it and one has to be in the cabin for trim purposes, and the three in the cockpit are always moving around like Archie and Meathead trying to go through a doorway (from the old "All in the Family" show).  The Vacationer is a bigger boat that might be better for family sailing.

My family is currently 2 adults and 2 small children.  By the time it's built it will probably be 2 adults and 2 teenagers that will only grudgingly agree to be seen in public with Dad.  I want to be able to take people along, but honestly I anticipate most of my time being solo, or as one of a pair.  My wife gets motion sick so she doesn't get too excited about going boating.

The cabinless design is probably better for four adults day sailing, but then once you give up the neat little cabin you open yourself up to some other designs like the Core Sound series (even easier to build, rig and much better sailing boats according to those who have built and sailed both). 

Ok, so now I'm confused.  In this thread the CS have been referred to as more complex, not more complex, and now easier.    What's the big difference in the construction of the two?  What constitutes "better sailing?"

Finally, I'm not sure I agree with Paul regarding the forefoot being too large on the Weekender.  I've always thought that the real secret in the Weekender's surprising performance is that large deep forefoot that balances off the high aspect rudder, making it tack about as effectively as if it had a centerboard.  Phil Bolger had a similar design, albeit with a huge centerboard nearly at the bow and a high aspect rudder aft, that was featured in a Wooden Boat magazine a few years back. 

I won't presume to try to discuss the matter, that would be like my 3rd grader discussing law.  I've read an incredible amount of these board over the weekend and that was a synthesis of his postings on both boards.  I distinctly remember him saying that in his entire collection of designs there is no other design with a keel even remotely like the Weekender.

At this point I'm just dreaming.  My current car might be able to tow a Bay River skiff, but anything bigger would get a little iffy. 

I'm going to keep my options open and I have plenty of time before the keel is laid.

Bill

[Ken_Potts]

   My CS17 is something like 450 lbs. (one day I'll weigh it and know for sure) and I trailer it with a 2.5 liter '99 Ford Ranger at 75 MPH (windage is a bigger issue than weight).  Last summer I helped a couple de-rig their boat because they were having trouble lowering their stayed rig without killing themselves (I ended up getting hit in the head by the mast and having months of pain but that's another story).  The boat was about 18 feet long and 1000 pounds and they were pulling it with a (new style) VW bug.  If you can pull a Weekender you can certainly pull a Core Sound.  If a Bay River Skiff is your upper limit for towing you probably shouldn't pull a Weekender.  There's just a lot more mass (as designed) to a Weekender than a CS or a BRS (I may be wrong - Please check my numbers).  You can look at the materials list for both boats and make a ballpark estimate of final weight.

   The Stevensons boats are great and the B and B boats are also great.  It's apples and oranges though.  I wish I had the experience of building and owning both to back me up but I don't (so ignore me but listen to the guys who've built both).

   As a mechanical designer who draws blueprints for a living I will tell you that I have never, in my life, seen such a well developed set of drawings as those for the CS17.  I think Graham updates the drawings regularly and when I built my CS17 I never had to ask Graham or anyone else for a particular dimension and I'm not sure I ever saw any redundancy.  Having said that you've got a wonderful community here to tap for information and if you start a Stevenson's boat you will certainly have a bunch of folks motivated to keep you rolling along on the project.  They're all great boats.  It's apples and oranges.  I do love the sight of a gaffer and would like to learn the finer points of sailing one someday but I also like hitting kneeboarding speeds on a broad reach with my sprit-boom cat-ketch.  I also really like being able to yell stuff like "Haul that Main Snotter fer all yer worth, Mister Horton!"  ;D

   Find a boat you like and build it - Don't feel like you have to defend your decision.  Every boat I've built has taught me more about what I'm looking for.  And I've enjoyed every single one of them.

   And don't forget to post pictures!  There's lots of us who aren't building anything at the moment who would love to live vicariously through you 

[Charlie Jones]

Thought I'd throw one more thing into this discussion.

You are aware that Graham now has a kit version of his Core Sound 17? All the plywood bits and pieces all neatly CNC router cut, along with all the scraps left over?

Cost a small amount more than just buying the ply, but you get it ALL and it goes together beautifully.

He's working on other boats now, getting them programmed. Maybe even the Bellhaven?

Just something to think about.

[BillBrush]

Thought I'd throw one more thing into this discussion.

You are aware that Graham now has a kit version of his Core Sound 17? All the plywood bits and pieces all neatly CNC router cut, along with all the scraps left over?

Cost a small amount more than just buying the ply, but you get it ALL and it goes together beautifully.

He's working on other boats now, getting them programmed. Maybe even the Bellhaven?

Just something to think about.

I'm sensing a theme here.