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Core Sound 15 -- The Decision and Some General Questions


Guest Dennis M

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Guest Dennis M

Greetings, All.

I recently purchased plans for the Core Sound 15 (#14) and the Spin Drift 12. I will build the 12 for my wife who has been showing some interest in a smaller boat that she can rig and sail herself. As we live in Grand Rapids, MI, the boats will be sailed on the Great Lakes and the virtually innumerable smaller lakes that populate our state. I currently own and sail a Joe Dobler designed multi-chine plywood skiff, 16'4" x 5'. Originally, it flew an 86sqft spritsail, but I added a 21 sqft jib and turned it into a spritsail sloop. I built this boat about 7 years ago and have sailed the wheels off of it. It is a very good sailer, but my fingers have been itching to build again. I have been haunting this forum since I built this boat (aren't we always thinking about the next build?), but have not purchased plans until now.

In choosing the CS 15, I had the following things in mind:

First, I wanted a boat in the 15 ft range with a 5.5' - 6' beam. I know that a lot of folks generally build larger, but going this route is just not practical for me. Second, the boat had to have a good reputation for sailing well. The CS17s, of course, are notorious for this. The 15 has no such record, but Graham's reputation and success with his other designs meant an awful lot in my decision. Thirdly, in addition to sailing well, the boat had to be able to handle some fairly rough conditions (within reason) and be able to carry me and my gear up the Lake Michigan coast (from Holland to Traverse Bay and back in some comfort.) So, comfortable seating (I'm too old to be sitting in the bilge) was a must. Since my current boat has a narrow flat dory like bilge panel, I was also interested in building a v-bottom model. It will be interesting to me to compare the relative merits of the two types. I am also attracted to the cat-ketch rig, although after sailing with a spritsail for so long, I am enamored of both its aesthetics and its performance (I gave a Chrysler Mutineer skipper fits the other day because he could not pass me while on a close hauled course!) To make a long story short, the CS 15 filled most of the requirements that I was looking for and now I find myself part of the "B&B Family."

Now for my general questions.

1. The Rig: For those of you who have experience with sail track and sprit. Does the sail track interfere with setting up the sprit? It would seem to me that the track would prohibit tightening the sprit and so effecting sail shape.

2. On the "Cut-Out" page of my plans, the fwd bulkhead shows dotted lines running approx 3/4" inboard along the lower chine. I am not sure what these lines mean. I would appreciate any help in interpretation here.

3. I get the sense that fiberglassing the exterior of the hull is optional (I understand that the exterior seams need to be taped). What do folks generally practice in this regard?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Best Regards,

Dennis

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Hi Dennis!

My first response is that building the Spindrift 12 might be a waste of time. I would think your wife will be taking the CS 15 out more than the Spindrift.

I has sleeve luffs on my CS17 but would probably  consider a sail track if I built a larger boat. On the CS 15 I would certainly go with the sleeves. Bear in mind there's a number of very knowledgeable people who prefer the slides.

Instead of tape on the outside of the chines and keel I chose 6oz cloth for the entire hull. I have no reason to regret it but did notice that it is possible to sand right through the cloth on the edges if you aren't careful.

I've been in some heavy weather in my CS17 and was very impressed with it. In fact, I can't think if a comparable boat that I would have preferred. That said, Lake Michigan can be pretty nasty if you're caught offshore between harbors during a change of weather.

Keep us posted and remember, we require pictures, lots of pictures.

Gordy

(Build the 15 first.....)

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Guest Dennis M

Hi, Gordy,

In theory, I should never be out of sight of land while heading up the coast. Since Lake Michigan has no natural harbors on its eastern shore, safe havens were built about every 20 miles or so up the coast (e.g., Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, etc.) Sailing 20-25 miles should be doable in a day. I'd carry minimal supplies since I could replenish easily along the way and if things get too rough, I'd haul the boat ashore. It would be light enough to wrestle out of harm's way.

Dennis

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Hi Dennis,

I can answer most of your questions.

I think that you will enjoy the CS15, it is the latest in the CS series. The CS17 evolved from the BRS15 to excel in open water. The CS20 came about because Dickie Newsome wanted a bigger boat and he wanted to win the Great Race. And, as I recall we did win it in that boat for three years. After Dickie turned 70 his family forbid him from stepping the masts and sailing the CS 20 alone; so he came to me for a smaller version so that he could sail whenever he wanted to. I also put in a tabernacle on the mainmast to make the mast even easier to step. Dickie gave me the boat for a week to sail as much as I wanted, which I did. Dickie wanted as big a sail plan as I could fit on it, and then fit the boat with 2 reefs in each sail. If you use the full sail plan you really do need the reefs.

I found the boat a joy to sail, quick, very maneuverable and well balanced.

The sail track does not interfere with the sprit except for chafe from the thin metal edge on the sprit. I screw on a pair of thin hardwood strips about 12" long and 3/8" wide and 1/4" thick on each side of the track with enough space so that they don't interfere with the slides. The edges of the strips are lightly rounded and the hold the sprits off of the sharp edge of the tracks.

The dashed line on the forward bulkhead represents a straight line. The 3/4" shows that the bottom curve is convex and the maximum depth of the curve stands 3/4" out from the straight line. That curve is necessary to fit the natural shape of the bottom.

Glassing the outside of the hull is optional but I will delete the outside tape if I am glassing with 8oz. cloth. I feel that 6oz. does not give enough safety margin and have seen a few failures.

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Guest Dennis M

Hi, Graham,

Thanks for the reply. I will probably go with the largest sail plan and the double reefs. I am wondering how much more that is beyond the 104sq ft listed on the plans? I am assuming that the larger sail plan has a more generous roach and that the roach does not change the coe of the sail allowing the mast steps and partners to remain as they are.

With the double reefs, I doubt that I would need the third mast step. I am thinking, therefore, that I will arranged another mast position that will accommodate the spritsail sloop affair of 107sq ft. I have now. That way, I can messabout with different rigs and such to my heart's content.

Dennis

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The sail plan that you have is the same as on hull #1. There are different ways to measure the area of sails, I used the more common luff X luff perpendicular/2 rather than measuring roach, foot round and luff round. The area counting roach etc. comes out to 117 sq. ft for the CS15 which is a lot of sail for that boat.

If you go with the reef points you do not need the third mast step.

If you have the sprit rig it would be fun to be able to try them both. I have never cared for that rig because of the higher sheet loads and if it is rigged in the usual way, having to tack the main as well as the jib.

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Guest Dennis M

Graham, the only other sail I have experience with is a boomed lateen. It had higher sheet loads on it than the Spritsail, I think. I've sailed the spritsail boomless and one needs to be Arnold Schwarzenegger to hold it. I've used a sprit boom on it which is easy on the hands and I've also used a conventional boom which requires a little more muscle than the sprit boom. I'll have defer to your judgment on this since I don't have enough experience with different rigs to make a proper call . The jib makes for busy sailing, to be sure, and I will probably be spoiled by the cat-ketch if it is everything I hear folks say it is.

117sq ft on the CS 15 does sound a bit much. But my first reaction was, Yahoo!!!!, she ought to move like lightning! Anyway, since I believe my current boat was conservatively undercanvassed, I'm of a mind that it is better to have more sail area than not. It is cheaper to reef than it is to buy more sail.

Dennis

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest Dennis M

Progress report: I have the panels cut out, scarfed, cut to shape and ready to tape to make up the butterfly. While predrilling the bilge panels for stitching, I noted that one panel is 3/16 inch shorter than the other! What the  :o!? I'm wondering how that could be given that I cut 'em out simultaneously, one panel atop the other. I reckon I'll now have a faster boat on one tack due to the longer lwl on that side.::).

PS (Sorry, Gordy, no pics. I need to purchase a disposable camera as I don't own a digital. I'll get some pics up after stitching the hull).

~Dennis

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Dennis,

The only way that I can see one side panel being longer than the other when cut together is if there was a lot of sag in the plywood while cutting. Put some battens under the panels to prevent sag, clamp the panels together and trim them to make them the same.

I was contacted recently by the Owner of hull #1, he broke the main mast after an argument with a tree. I told him that I will fix it as long as I can take her for another sail.

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Guest Dennis M

Graham, that makes sense, although I thought I had them supported sufficiently. I will trim the panels to the same length before I tape them for the butterfly. I am going to cut and scarf the inwales today so that I can have them ready for this week-end. I plan on connecting the panels Friday and stitch the boat up on Saturday.

I have a couple of questions:

Do I notch the deck beam for the deck stringers and kingplank?

Also, I've not had much success building a frame ( I don't quite know what to call it) for the hatch on the fwd bulkhead. I might be overthinking the problem or approaching it incorrectly. Can you suggest a way to do this?

Thanks,

Dennis

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Yes, notch the king plank into the beam.

After you cut the hatch into the bulkhead you can cut out a backing ring from some of your scrap 9mm ply with the hole 3/4" smaller all of the way around than the hatch. The outboard shape can be parallel to the inside shape or can be left rectangular.

I like to do this stuff first as it quicker and easier to do at the bench rather than climbing in and out of the boat.

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Dennis,

My "Lively" has the second main mast position.  After changing her sails to have two reefs and tracks, I feel that you do not need the second main mast position.  Also, allow the mast to swing free to follow the sail which I did and like it.

"Lively" does not have the hull or topsides glassed and I have not seen any need to do so.  The System Three paint seems to be very strong and I have had few problems even pulling her up on beaches. All seams inside and out are taped with the fg tape I got from Graham. I think is is 8 oz.

Needless to say, I believe you will love the cat/ketch rig.  I love it. I had sail mostly sloops before "Lively".

I somehow ended up with the main sprit too short so I scarfed a piece to it and wrapped it with glass.  I have had no problems with it and the glass seems to protect it from track or mast friction.  I like Grahams idea of the hardwood strip.

Dale

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Hi, Dale - I've been wondering about masts and their freedom to rotate.  Did you do anything special to give the masts slippery bearing surfaces?

Also, what's the hardwood strip idea?  Is it mounted to the side of the mast to provide a buffer for the sprit where it rubs against the mast?

It's going to be a while before I'm making masts, but I'll get there.  I haven't built cradles yet, so I suppose that's the next step - last weekend I built a work bench.  Man, am I slow - hope I'm getting paid by the hour....  ;D

Carl

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Guest Dennis M

Update:

The butter fly is made. The upper bow has been faired into the lower panel and vice versa. The panels have been stitched up and are ready to open and place on the cradles. I've got to scrounge for an extra pair of hands from somewhere to get this done. So, I doubt I will have it opened out and stitched the rest of the way until sometime this week.

Everything has gone smoothly thus far. It is amazing what a few hours of pleasant work produces. Everything looks like the plans as far as I can tell.  Pictures, you ask? Well, I've taken the first couple on a disposable camera. I'll post them when I get the film developed.

Oyster!  :o I'm not the type kiss and tell. :-X

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