Core Sound 20 Hull #102

[JeffM]

Chart shows it as rocky; lot of weeds came up on the rode, too.

[wkisting]

Most of my anchoring experience with danforth-type anchors has been in mud, so no troubles there. Haven't ever had to try weeds or rocks with a danforth, so that's all new to me. But the lake near us is mostly sandy-bottomed, I think, so the Fortress anchor should do well. I noticed the flukes on the Fortress are much sharper than on the typical danforth anchor, so I suspect they'll bite in nicely and hold very well.

Today, boat-building taught me to swear like a sailor.    For attaching hardware to the masts, I didn't have any fine-thread stainless screws on hand (all course thread) so I was worried that I wouldn't get enough "bite" in the aluminum masts with them. After chatting with Graham, I decided to through-bolt all the mast hardware, which meant I got to spend HOURS fishing each nylock nut up the mast with a wrench taped to a 7' long stick. It was slow and tedious, but with my wife's help, we managed to get a nut tightened on the back of every bolt. The first one took ridiculously long to accomplish, but after that, we got it down to a science and managed to get them on reasonably quickly after that. Still, if any one is looking for tips on doing it this way, I only have one:  DON'T.    No, seriously, if you have the patience, it's not so bad, and now all our hardware is very securely fixed to the mast. All bedded with 5200 also, which is a fine way to isolate the stainless from the aluminum also to prevent galvanic corrosion.

About the wedges that folks use to fair the sail track across the joins of the aluminum sections... I decided to forgo the wedges. Instead, I squeezed some fast cure 5200 behind the sailtrack at each of the joins and smoothed it out with my finger. I skipped riveting the three holes that spread across the join, let the 5200 cure 24 hours, then came back and riveted the three holes at each join and it worked like a charm. I ended up with a semi-flexible (but very rigid) bead of 5200 behind the sail track instead of a wood or fiberglass wedge. Not sure if other folks would like it, but I think it looks nice and will serve well. I'd definitely do it this way again, as I suspect it's easier and quicker than making wedges.

[wkisting]

Sure, Ray, steal away... Just make sure the 5200 is reasonably well cured before riveting through it, or it could crush down too much when you drive the rivets. Ours kept its shape fine after a 24 hour cure using the fast cure version of 5200. One caveat: do make sure you clean up around the track well, as any residual 5200 could interfere with the smooth operation of the sail slides. Again, ours came out fine because we carefully cleaned the edges of the track with acetone, which makes short work of any 5200 mess.

I'm having trouble figuring out the sprit arrangement, and worried that I've made a time-consuming mistake. When I spoke with Graham, he said to mount my eyestraps (for attaching the snotter) horizontally so that the S-hooks he sent me would hook in vertically and be more likely to stay put. So I attached the eyestraps as he specified. Today, however, I saw another plan sheet (not the main mast plan) that shows an eyestrap on the mast with a captive fiddle block, so now I'm wondering if Graham forgot about the fiddle block and meant to tell me that the S-hook attaches to the block, NOT the eyestrap. Hopefully, I'm wrong (just left a message on Graham's machine to see what he says), but I'm beginning to suspect that this means I may have to fish a wrench back up the mast to remove the nuts, attach the fiddle block, then reattach the eyestrap again--which will be another full day's work, and may be extra difficult this time since both sets of eyestraps and bolts are also bedded with 5200 which has cured by now. Anyway, that little dilemma held us up so we didn't progress on the deck hardware today as planned. But we did get to see the sails on the masts and it's getting exciting to see it nearly finished.

[Edit to add: By the way, how many inches forward of the mast should the sprit normally protrude? Not sure how much to cut ours down, if at all.]

[Charlie Jones]

Just want to point something out here. 5200 and 4200, both slow and fast cure, will clean up very nicely with plain old rubbing alcohol- I buy 91% stuff from Walmart- WHOLE lot cheaper than Acetone AND we can use it to prime our kerosene stoves ;D

In this picture Laura is cleaning 5200 from the edges of that top surface- she sure wouldn't do it on something this large unless it worked well- You can see the bottle of alcohol in her hand.

That's a Condor 40 we were working on by the way.

[wkisting]

Well, my sails are slightly oversized than normal, and I didn't know how this would affect the sprit length. Graham recommended leaving the sprits slightly oversized even before the oversized sails, so mine are cut about 6" longer than the plans show, which seems fine, but gives me about 8" - 10" in front of the masts. Just wondering if I should cut them down to minimize the rotational leverage on the attachment gear, or if that's an acceptable overhang amount.

By the way, I had the terminology wrong... it's not a fiddle block; it's a single block with becket that I was referring to, as you rightly guessed. I'm very relieved to hear that I can just attach it to the hook, which is probably what I would've done anyway. But I wanted to be sure it was correct since the sprit arrangement is all new to me and I don't know what I can and can't do without creating a safety hazard and/or failure point for the sprits.

I do have a plan set, but mine has been odd from the start... several missing sheets and several other outdated sheets. But Graham and Carla have graciously sent me updates/replacements whenever I've been able to figure out what is missing or outdated. So far, it hasn't given me any trouble, but I did very nearly make "keyed" mast bottoms before someone here on the forum mentioned that Graham no longer does that. In any case, that's why I've been harassing you all with more questions than usual about the rigging issues and other finishing details.... to make sure I'm caught up with the latest design decisions for the CS. Probably should call Graham more often, but the man deserves some peace. 

[JeffM]

They look fine to me!  What is "rotational leverage," and why should it be worse on longer sprits?

[wkisting]

Yep, that's the force I'm talking about. I suspect the force will be greater if the end of the sprit is longer because it sweeps in a wider arc and thus, pulls harder on the snotter. But of course, as long as you ease the snotter as Ray mentions, it probably makes little difference. I'll probably just leave mine alone until I sail a few times to see how they do.

Glued on some mahogany riser blocks for the mizzen sheet cam cleats tonight. Also drilled holes for the oarlocks. Still have some seal-coating to do and lots of hardware to attach, but I think we can finish in about two or three weeks, which will give us just enough time to get some sailing experience under our belts before driving up for Graham's B&B get together in October.

[Peter HK]

I suspect the force will be greater if the end of the sprit is longer because it sweeps in a wider arc and thus, pulls harder on the snotter.

Meaning no offence, I suspect the opposite might be true. The problem with a nonrotating rig is that, as the sheet is fully eased, the snotter needs to be eased by a half mast diameter, as it's attached to the centre point of the mast. Obviously there is some give/stretch in the snotter. Were the snotter very long (imagine a sprit protruding 3 ft in front of the mast) then the half mast diameter wouldn't matter much and the stretch in the line would cope as it's only a small percentage of the length, whereas if the snotter is very short (say 2 inches) an inch or so would make a big difference.

My 2c worth

Peter HK

[wkisting]

No offense taken, Peter. I suspect there's a good possibility you're right about the line stretch, and I don't know myself how it works out in practice. I just thought there might be adverse effects if the sprit is too long in front of the mast. Being new to the sprit rig (our last sailboat was gaff-rigged), it's all a mystery to me. 

Now if I could just find time to finish the darn thing and get sailing... So many little finish details to work out yet, though, so I'm trying not to rush them as long as I can keep my impatience in check.

[Edited to fix a typo.]

[JeffM]

Dunno.  If your snotter is run to the side deck, it is long, indeed.  (Mine is even a bit longer since it's also routed around my mast stepper.)  I've never felt the need to ease it.  I chiefly work to get it in about as tight as I'm able.  When I'm reefed (since it's around the mast), my sprits go WAY forward.  Again, no pressing need to ease.

[Charlie Jones]

You don't ease it downwind? The sails will fill MUCH better down wind with a bit less snotter tension. Particularly when wing and wing. Let the sail go a bit forward of the mast ( not much) and slack off a bit on the snotter- they just lay there and pull.

Look how far forward Graham has his sails in this shot-

[Charlie Jones]

deleted- double post

[Dale Niemann]

Maybe I am missing something here, but on "Lively" the masts are free to rotate so I don't think the rotational leverage changes much.  Maybe the snotter is slightly tighter because it is pulling from the side instead of forward.  I have not had any problems sailing in any direction or wind condition including double reefed with the sprit sticking about 2 feet out from the mast.

Dale

[Charlie Jones]

Yeah- free rotating masts changes the picture a lot.

[wkisting]

Thanks Dale... that's what I needed to know. To clarify, I wasn't insisting that rotational leverage IS a problem, I was only asking if it could be. From what you and a few others posted, it sounds like an unwarranted concern on my part. I wouldn't worry about it at all if my sails were to plan, but since I had to guess how much longer to make them to suit the (slightly) oversized sails Graham sent me, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't introducing any unusual stresses or leveraging problems with my guesstimated length of sprits. 

[wkisting]

Just about got the rigging all figured out, but still a few lingering questions:

1. Some pics of CS20s I've seen show THREE lines running back from the main mast to the cockpit. One is the uphaul/halyard. Another is the snotter tension. What is the THIRD line for?

2. Graham included a few lines in my rigging kit marked "reefing lines," but I'm not sure how reefing lines need to be attached and/or used in a sprit setup. Can anyone clarify? Pictures would be very welcome.

3. What solutions have folks tried for easy anchor launching? I've got a bow-roller setup, but because of the main mast and its associated rigging, I'll probably still have to go forward to launch anchor, unless I set up a cheek block to route the anchor line around these obstacles and back to the cockpit. Has anyone tried that? I'm not sure I want to clutter up the deck with any more rigging, but it would be nice to have a self-launching anchor controllable from the cockpit.

[paul_stewart]

1.  Downhaul.

2.  The reefing lines are roughly about 5' long? If so, you may be talking about the short lines used to bundle the folded, lower part of the sail when reefed;  see the photos below.

3.  Radio-controlled rocket launcher?  If so, see bottom photo -- maybe Joe can ask this guy where he found his launcher.

[JeffM]

I often single-hand, so tricks for anchoring and raising anchor interest me, too.  I generally do both from the foredeck.  I have several times kept the anchor and rode in the cockpit, and then (while still under way) taken a loop of rode foreward in a carabiner thingy, and clipped it to the bow eye.  Dropping the anchor over, letting it run out through the carabiner, and cleating off on the stern works well enough in anchoring, but I couldn't easily retrieve that way, and anyway I usually end up with a loop of rode in the water, and the whole thing tends to get fouled up too easily.  A better solution if you can give yourself some leeway is to heave-to and handle the anchor on the foredeck at leisure.  This works pretty well both coming and going.  I only still get into trouble if I'm anchoring in close quarters.

[Dale Niemann]

Wes,

If you search the history, I sent several photos of my anchor locker which slides under the forward cockpit seat.  I have the anchor roller that Graham designed.  I launch anchor from cockpit or foredeck and then cleat off just forward of the mast.

I really like this setup because the anchor is always readily available yet out of the way when not in use.

By the way the bitter end is tied to the second mast tube.

If you don't find the photos, let me know and I will re-post them.

Dale

[paul_stewart]

This seems to be it...

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=5604.msg46998#msg46998

I like that, Dale.