Core Sound 20 Hull #102

[wkisting]

Hi all,

I've been absent from the forum for a very long time because I went on the job market and ended up moving from Iowa to take a job teaching Shakespeare and Renaissance Lit. at Augusta State University. In any case, my wife has finally given me the green light to start building a CS20 and we've constructed a 14' x 20' covered building area behind our house for that purpose. We had considered building the Princess 22, but the kayaker in me really wanted to get back to something simpler and more "open" than the cabin-covered P22, especially since we used the cabin so very little on our 14' Stevenson Pocket Cruiser and often wished for a larger cockpit to take out friends.

Anyway, thought I would drop by to say hello and to let you know I'm gearing up to build. If anyone knows of plywood suppliers in the North Georgia or South Carolina area, I'd be pleased to have that information. I've found a few suppliers online, and right now the most promising option sounds like Southern Crown Boatworks near Atlanta (about 2.5 hours away from us). They tell me they can get BS1088-rated Okoume fairly quickly, though they e-mailed me to say that I may also want to consider a cheaper 1088-rated mahogany instead. (Any thoughts on using mahogany ply in a CS20?)

Well, I'll keep you posted on this thread as our boat starts to take shape. We're hoping to get started soon to take advantage of the Spring, before the really hot weather gets here again.

Best,

Wes

[JeffM]

Welcome back, Wes!  Can't give you help on local suppliers (I couldn't find any where I am, either), but I'm sure you know there's a wealth of CS knowledge around here.  I look forward to watching your progress.

[wkisting]

That's pretty much what I decided too, Ray. I've learned over and over again that the best boats (for me, at least) are always the simplest boats. Before aesthetics, cabin-comforts, etc., the thing I really value (by far) is usability and convenience. It was some of the discussions I had with you about the CS17 and CS20 that helped me come back to that decision, so thanks much for all your input.

Talked to the lumber supplier again today and he's suggesting Hydrotek plywood. Prices quoted (not factoring in the discount he's still calculating for me) were $62.50 per 6mm sheet and $85.90 per 9mm sheet. That sounds much higher than the prices you pay Ray, but my sense is that it is fair for this area. Any comments?

Also, the plans for the CS20 call for 11 sheets of 6mm and 4 sheets of 9mm. How much extra would you suggest I buy? I was thinking I should request an extra sheet of 6mm, but perhaps I should count on more waste or mistakes? I hate to have to place another small (expensive) order later if I don't order enough now.

[Ken_Potts]

  If you order an extra sheet of each and end up not using them you'll have an excuse to start building another boat...

  And welcome back.

[Tom Lathrop]

Can't comment on the local prices Wes but your dealer is a bit confused.  No one is going to sell mahogany at a lower price than occume.  Of course they sometimes call different stuff "mahogany".  Many call occume mahogany.  A lot of the available marine ply in cheaper grade is meranti and that may be what he is referring to as mahogany but it ain't.  Main problem with meranti, which is often labeled hydrotek, is weight which may add about 70 lbs or so to the weight of the boat.  It is significantly heavier than occume.  Another available candidate in cheaper grade is called kerung and that is just way too heavy for our boats.

Occume will weigh about 19 lbs for a 4x8x6mm sheet and 29 lbs for 9mm. I'd try for that. 

You can have BS1088 occume shipped to you cheaper than he is offering meranti.  Noah Marine offers it at $50 /6mm and $72/9mm.  BS6566 will be $41 and $55.

http://www.noahsboatbuilding.com/noahsusa/items.asp?CartId={E71F3EEF-27BD-48C7-8630-EVEREST19720AD4B510}&Cc=OKO1088&iTpStatus=0&Tp=&Bc=

There are others.  Google

[JeffM]

Wes, I ordered the required number of sheets and had wood left over to fix mistakes, make berths, etc.  One of my bigger mistakes involved cutting one of my 9mm sheets in half (!)  I fixed that with a butt joint and kept on going.

[wkisting]

Tom, I think he mis-spoke about the mahogany. It turned out to be the Hydrotek that he was referring to, which is close to Meranti as you suggested. He said average weight difference from Okoume is an extra 5 to 7 lbs. per sheet, so I'm supposing an extra 80 lbs. overall added to the boat, which seems like it would be negligible in a Core Sound 20 based on what others have told me.

He claims the Hydrotek brand is better than the "Meranti" (he claims they are not exactly the same thing) because although both are BS1088 rated, the quality of the Meranti has declined in recent years. The prices did seem a bit high regardless, but I'm waiting to hear on the "discounted" price he is going to quote me. Thanks for the lead on Noah Marine... I'll check out that option also.

The appeal of Meranti, for me, is the durability and rot-resistance, at a cheaper price. If it were sacrificing performance, I might hesitate, but I can't image 70-80 lbs. making much difference to the performance of a 20' boat.

Jeff... glad to hear the plans leave room for leftovers. I think I'll just order one extra 6mm sheet for my uses, then. I'm sure I can use that up somehow... I'm planning on a few "upgrades" like a double-thick coaming, etc. that might require the extra sheet anyway.

Wes

Wes

[JeffM]

My coamings are on the tall side, and I used left-over 9mm (not quite trusting 6mm for this).  Seems to me that the heavier wood would make the boat a little more than 10% heavier, since the hull is expected to come in at 600-700lb.  Personally, I'd prefer that extra weight be low down -- unless it were dynamic (i.e. live).  On the other hand, rot and abrasion resistance are hard to turn down...

[Oyster]

I buy my silicone bronze fasteners from Sountern Crown because of their friendly and family run business even though Bill is hard to make direct contact with somedays. But they will return your calls in a day or so. But their plywood comes from World Panel in most cases. But you maybe able to save some shipping if you buy from them. If not call Al direct at the Windsor North Carolina at 252=794=9944. Of course keep in mind if you want to give Graham some business that also suplements their one onone help, he will also and has provided friendly service and incredible and competitive prices too on almost all parts. ;)

Remember Joubert is more expensive plywoods but is very consistant in quality year end and year out. The 1088 stamp is not what it used to be.

[Tom Lathrop]

Oyster,

I would have led Wes to Al Jernigan at World Panel in Windsor but I know that Al does not have any marine ply at this moment.  I am waiting on him to get delivery from Miami which is hopefully late next week.  I have about 34 sheets of 6, 9 and 12 BS1088 on order.  Al will deliver to me but I don't know whether they have any means to ship.

I have to call him tomorrow and will ask then.

[wkisting]

Thanks Oyster,

Bill at Southern Crown is the person I've been talking to who quoted me the (high?) prices I mentioned above. It is strange to me that the prices are so much higher than those listed at Noah's Marine (the link Tom posted) and some of the other non-local suppliers. (BTW, Bill is a nice fellow... very friendly on the phone.)

I'm starting to think that I'll use Meranti for the bottom of the hull (the four 9mm sheets and perhaps one of the 6mm sheets) and Okoume everywhere else. This would minimize the weight increase, but alleviate some of my concerns about skid-protection and rot-resistance in the hull. It would also keep the added weight low, as Jeff suggested.

Hey Ray, do you happen to know if the forward (1/4" thick) portion of the CS20's hull can be gotten out of a single sheet of 6mm ply? It looks like it could, but I'm not sure without laying it out full-size.

Wes

[Oyster]

Hum, I know that he does pack and ship by common carrier, or did last year. Steve Day purchased his wood for the garvey from him. I have called the past two days trying to obtain some plywood and Leon told me that they are busy as a one armed paper hanger and he would call me in the am. I have an order also in but he normally combines mine with several others, costing me a gas supplement.

[Charlie Jones]

Wes- I don't think so. But check the cut sheet Graham provides- if you follow those, you'll have plenty of wood. He really does a nice job of figuring the cuts.

[wkisting]

Thanks Ray,

I keep going back and forth. I don't mind spending the extra money if need be, but the better abrasion resistance of a Hydrotek hull really appeals to me since I've seen more than my share of shallow water, rocks, and "dead heads". Of course, I don't know what GA waters are like since I've only been down here 6 months... but the beaches on the lake near me seem rocky. I'll probably keep changing my mind about the wood until it comes time to write the check. 

Does Hydrotek finish "bright" nicely? I can't recall, though I know I've seen pics of it before. I'm thinking of finishing the deck bright.

Wes

[wkisting]

Hey Charlie,

Is there supposed to be a plan sheet that shows where the cutouts come from on each ply sheet? I have a plan sheet called "Hull Cutout Sheet", but it only shows overall dimensions for the bottom and side assemblies. It does not show where exactly each piece is cut from each sheet of plywood like my Stevenson plans did for the Pocket Cruiser. (I'm just wondering if maybe I'm missing a plan sheet, based on your comment).

My plan sheet says the 1/4" portion of the bottom hull is 6 feet long, and it's (fairly) triangular in shape, tapering from about 28" to 12.75", so I'm thinking I could get the other half out of the remainder of the same 1/4" sheet (cut mirror-image on the other "half" of the same sheet). It doesn't matter I suppose, since I'll be ordering one spare 1/4" sheet anyway, just in case.

Wes

[Charlie Jones]

Yes- there is. It's called the "pattern sheet" and Graham has one in every plan. The whole thing won't fit my scanner, but here's the one from the 20. And yes, it looks like both bow sections come from a single sheet.

[jawilco]

Geez that makes a lot of sense. You can see where you could save some wood here adn there.

I didn't get one of those with my plans.

I have to send an email requesting one.

[wkisting]

Charlie, thank you! I didn't get that sheet with my plans. I'll have to send a note off to Graham and Carla to see if I can get one.

Ray, I was just thinking of maybe finishing the transom bright and maybe a few other spots here and there. Not worth investing in the Sapele, though, since I won't be doing much with the bright wood. Thanks for the suggestion.

Two questions:

1. Is there a difference between Hydrotek and HydroCore? They seem similar from all I can tell. (World Panel and Southern Crown sell HydroCore.)

2. On the materials list for the CS20, it lists "Deck Framing" in 3/4" x 1 1/2" x 24'. I can't figure out if this is for the miscellaneous framing throughout the deck, of if I really need an UNBROKEN LENGTH of 24 FEET. Anyone know where this piece goes?

Thanks!

[jaxsailr]

Hi Wes,

Welcome to the south, I hope you get more sailing in now that you are here.  Congrats on your new job.

A sugestion about the ply, have you checked with B&B?  Another member went to them and drove there from FL and was able to get some time in.  Also they may be able to C&C cut the panels for you and save some time.

If you have time I would like to envite you to Cedar Key samll boat meet this May.  it's a great time and get to see some interesting craft.

Fair leads,

Niels

[wkisting]

Thanks for the invite Niels. Is there a website with the particulars about Cedar Key? If I can clear my schedule, I'd very much like to attend.

In answer to my own question (#1) above, I discovered that HydroCore plywood is made of Gurjan, whereas Hydrotek plywood is made of Meranti. The folks at World Panel tell me it is comparable in weight, but of better quality than the Hydrotek panels they used to get. But I thought Gurjan was much heavier than Meranti... does that sound right? Anyone tried using HydroCore in the past?

Wes