Planer or Jointer? (OT)

[Frank Hagan]

Well, the bonus is in and paid, and I have enough left over for my next woodworking tool purchase. I'm down to the jointer or thickness planer on my list now, and I'm leaning toward a new thickness planer (I may be getting an older, used jointer from my brother).

So, any opinions out there? Favorite portable planer that is still available to buy? (the RIDGID won high praise from users, but is no longer available). Or perhaps a reason I should forgo the planer and opt for a new, 6" jointer instead.

[Pat Mellema]

Frank

I would go with the thickness planer as you need something to make your wood the proper thickness. I have a jointer and it does not handle wide boards that are not flat. I built a thickness sander that will make boards flat and it works well but it is very slow to use. the biggest problem is you have to use a real corse grit sanding belt with it to make it work and it takes a lot of effort to make the lumber smooth after you run it through it.it is nice to be able to make wood to a size other than stock thickness for a lot of woodworking projects.

[capt jake]

I have both a jointer and a planer; I would probably leans towards the planer as well. When you need a planer, ther is nothing else that with suffice, except the thickness sander as mentioned, with it's pluses and minuses.

I use my jointer a lot, but only to clean off the edge a board that I just ripped. It is great to take off the kerf left behind.

I have had my jointer much longer than teh planer, but I never ever regreted buying the pplaner. In retrospect, i should have gotten teh planer first! It isn't often used, but when it does get used; wow what a time saver!

I have a Delta 12", they didn't have the larger one when I bought. The new one (14"??) has four guide screws vs the 12" which only has two. Seems to me this would be a better set up!

[Barry Pyeatt]

IMHO I would opt for the thickness planer as well. Particularly if you are likely to end up with a joiner anyway. I've found that I constantly use it and seldom use the joiner by comparison. Even in building case goods I've found that I use the planer a lot more. But then I tend to use a lot of recycled materials too. Found woods from odd sources and old materials from construction projects that would otherwise go to the dump. Lots of nice hardwood out there that often just goes to waste because someone isn't happy with how it looks anymore.

That and a wand type metal detector.

But then that is just my $.02 worth.

[Dave Fleming]

Jointer does 2 things:

It puts a straight edge on a plank

It FACES one surface of a plank

Planer does 1 thing:

It Surfaces the other side of the plank.

If the plank has a CUP or TWIST then you need to FACE it before trying to put it through the planer.

Unless you can make one face flat and even, you cannot achieve a true parallel flat surface on a plank

For most of you folks I woiuld recommend S2S1E dimensioned stock.

With S2S1E stock to reduce the width of a plank you have the one good edge to pass against the rip fence to make a narrower plank. And both surfaces are flat and parallel to each other and to the thickness you asked for.

For those that might not be familiar with the letter number combinations I used here is a translation.

S2S1E= Surface(plane) 2 Sides and 1 Edge

S2S= Surface( plane) 2 Sides.

To acheive S2S most mills use a Straightoplane.

Straightoplane is a machine costing many thousands of dollars that will take a rough sawn plank and make both sides flat and parallel to each other. It does this by staggering the upper and lower cutter heads enough to allow the one side to act as the FACED side for the following cutter head.

For true ROM aka Run of the Mill aka rough sawn stock I would urge anybody to have both machines.

Therefore it is best and cheaper to buy your stock at least S2S1E.

I say cheaper because under most circumstances you will not need a planer. If you ordered the correct thickness of plank.

In most yards I worked in there was a 'jointer' usually 16 to 20 inches in cutter head width used strictly for FACEING. It had a big old roller chain driven feeder mounted atop. It was fun wrestling a big plank of Douglas Fir say 14 inches wide and 4 or 6 inches thick and 30 feet long across that machine. When I began and was the apprentice guess who got the job of sweeping up the chips as they came spewing out of the chute and sweeping off the top of the plank of stray chips too. Ayup, no dust collection systems in those days. Apprentices were the dust collection system.

Hope this made sense to you folks.

[Frank Hagan]

Thanks for the comments, guys! I'm looking at several reviews of machines now, and may check out the sales this weekend.

Dave, I do buy S2S1E stock, but the limited availability here means that I am almost always limited to 4/4 and 8/4 stock. Its very rare for my hardwood suppliers to have 2/4 or 6/4 stock, for instance. For the most part, I'll be using the planer to suface plane 4/4 or 8/4 stock down to other sizes for my upcoming furniture projects.

I'll have to investigate if there are any mills around here ... the lumberyards deal in construction lumber only, and with the lack of actual trees that grow here, all of the hardwood is shipped in S2S1E (or, as one of my local places call it, S2SR1E, adding "ripped" in there for some reason). The hardwood suppliers have a RAS or cutoff saw, but they don't do any other milling at all. I'm also paying $7 to $9 a bf for red oak, with white oak and cherry a bit higher. Yikes!

[Barnacle Jim]

Hi Frank,

A thickness planer certainly is a useful tool and several of the boatbuilding folks have noted some of its advantages. The planer does allow you to resaw heavier stock and bring the finished planks to a consistent dimension.

However, the planer simply will not flatten stock. If the stock is cupped or twisted going into the machine, it will be cupped or twisted coming out the machine. The only difference will be that your stock is now a little lighter, a little thinner.

The joiner, on the other hand, can flatten your stock and make it absolutely straight. And only the joiner will do that. (You could, of course, use a large hand plane to do what both the joiner and planer do. After all, people did that for centuries. I often find myself using a hand plane. Sometimes it's the only tool that can be used.)

A lot depends on the type of work we are doing, doesn't it? The more precise the work, the more exacting the standards. Sometimes lumberyard finished material is more than adequate; sometimes it is not.

If we are building furniture or cabinets, our standards need to be much more exacting. Here's a summary of what I do when beginning a special project.

First cut the stock to rough dimensions.

Next, flatten and edge the stock on the joiner.

After that, cut the stock to approximate dimensions on the table saw.

The last step is to send the stock through the planer.

Of course, the ultimate step is to cut the stock to its finished dimensions on the table saw and then, remove any saw marks on the joiner.

Frank, your lumberyard prices seem a little high. In fact, I pay less than half of what your are being charged, and we live in Arizona, a large desert. To give you an example

[Greg Luckett]

I have a Delta 12 inch planer, and a Jet 6 inch jointer. I rarely need the jointer. All my lumber is milled to start with, so far, and those dimensions are limited. I use the planer to clean up lumber and/or reduce the thickness. This is something I needed but could not do for years. It was purchased before the jointer and I do not regret that.

Tough decision Frank. I suggest making it based on what sort of needs you have.

[P Doug (WA)]

If you are going with a planer, there are some real good buys on the Delta 13" 2 speed model 22/580 right now. Delta is giving a $50 rebate. I ended up getting one for $278 after rebate and maybe could have beat that with some more shopping. I think that is a good planer for that price and it's getting down to where you could get both the planer and jointer!

[Frank Hagan]

Barnacle Jim: You're right ... a planer won't take the cup or twist out of a board. It really squeezes it between the rollers, so the side you're not planing becomes the indexing edge. But the rollers temporarily flatten the wood, but as soon as it comes out the other end, the twist or cup comes back.

I'm using mostly S2S stock, which is flat enough for use in rails and stiles, certainly. I plan to do a dining room table, and I suspect I'll need a jointer before I tackle a solid wood table top.

The other issue I've had with planing stock, even with the hand plane, is that there's a tendency to cup if you only plane one side of the wood. Even with kiln-dried wood.

[capt jake]

The other issue I've had with planing stock, even with the hand plane, is that there's a tendency to cup if you only plane one side of the wood. Even with kiln-dried wood.

When I am planing wood, I try to take and equal amount off of both sides of the piece. It sometimes gets a little confusing when doing a lot of stock, but it always works out.

In doing furntiture, try to think way ahead and set up a machine one time and do all that is required on that particular set-up, this way all of the reviels, drawars, etc are uniform. IE, all of the stocK is planed to the same thicknes first time.

[Dave Fleming]

I'll be using the planer to suface plane 4/4 or 8/4 stock down to other sizes for my upcoming furniture projects.

Ah Ha, the planer is needed for Joiner Work.

It comes clearer now.

No argument that if stock is available in only a few thicknesses and you need others then a good planer is needed.

I am not qualified to speak about this new breed of table top planers.

Either for or against them.

The only table top type machine I have used and, was impressed was the Williams and Hussy. BUT, I really would not recommend it as an all around planer for Joiner Work.

As far as stock "cupping" and it being milled S2S1E then it must have been flat sawn stuff probably Kiln Dried too. Not much you can do about it except do as Jake mentioned or rip it and reglue alternating the grain from one piece to the next. This is not always possible for a number of reasons, aesthetics being a primary one.

I ran the mill on one yard where all we had was container loads of 5/4 x 4 inch wide Teak to work with. Purchaser boo-boo don'cha know.

Chuckle...reading that back to see the word 'all' and container load in speaking about Teak. :wink: :wink:

Anyhoo, it took some creative laminations to get the stock to thicknesses and widths needed for door jambs, stair way components, bunk rails, pilot house fitments but it was done. Careful selecting of the FACED and Planed and jointed stock contributed greatly to the finished piece. After sanding and oiling it was hard to see where the glue joints were.

Thank Goodness for a glue joint cutterhead on the shaper and gallons of Cold Cure Epoxy!

[capt jake]

Hey Frank; I have always had very good luck with factory re-conditioend tools. I just did a quick Google and there is a lot out there. Maybe a place close to you has something in stock?

Most all still cary the same factory warranty also. Maybe you can save enough for 'another' tool! :)

[Dave R1]

Frank, good luck with the choice of planers. I think if you can only have one or the other, you're on the right track. I would consider getting a jointer at some point in time, though.

In the meantime, remember that you can face a board to remove cup or twist with a router with a bottom cleaning bit. You'll need a couple of straight rails to clamp on your bench with the board between them. A large sub base on the router is required but you can make that.

This isn't as fast as using a jointer although you can do a wider board typically and you probably already have a router.

[Arnie Eaton]

Frank, I have both a Delta planner and a 6" joiner. I find the joiner gets used about twice as much as the planner but both are nice to have.

[Frank Hagan]

I use a Freud Combination blade on my table saw. It leaves an incredible smooth cut. When joining boards to glue up a panely' date=' I generally cut the boards just a tad wider, and then run it through the table saw with the combo blade on and cut half a blade kerf of wood off the board with one smooth continuous motion.

Generally it works for me just fine.

Recently I ripped a board on my Grandfather's table saw. If I had to use that blade all of the time, than wihtout question I would need a jointer.[/quote']

I've been wondering about Freud's new blades ... I have one of their older ones, and its fine, but not as good a cut as the Forrest Woodworker II thin kerf that I destroyed making mast hoops (a spectacular failure, with saw teeth and plastic shrapnel flying in all directions, and I counted ... one, two, three, four ... all my fingers before I breathed again). The Forrest blade is $109 which seems a bit much, but it sure cut nice!

[Dave R1]

Frank, the Freud blades are very good. Maybe not as good as the WWII but I'd say almost. I have the Freud thin kerf ripping and crosscut blades which are about ready for sharpening. I think I'll buy another set so I'm not without blades but I am also thinking of going back to normal 1/8" thick blades. I think they are more stable and it easier to do calculations in my head with the eighth inch rather than 3/32.

[capt jake]

SOOOO! What did you get??? I was going to suggest a band saw, but it is seldom used in furniture (OK, depending upon what style you are atractrated to).

Anyway....What did you buy??? :shock: We wants to know! I may have to put it on the want list!!!!

[Frank Hagan]

Neither ... looks like it will have to wait a while. I did buy a compressor and finish nailer to do the baseboard and casing (which I also bought), but other tools will have to wait.

It looks like my wife's job may be ending soon, so there's a certain period of uncertainty ahead. Enough that I'll keep the cash in the money market account for a while "just in case".

I'm really conservative with money these days, and don't take on debt lightly any more. We have our house payment timed to be paid off when we retire, and we're adding to the 401k and IRAs so that we can enjoy our retirement. (I know, I know .... I'll do all this and drop dead 2 days before retirement!)

We have two trips planned we can't cancel, so we'll go on those and enjoy them, but all other "unnecessary" expenses will be put off for a while. Shame too, because I had my eye on a new (production) sailboat.