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ricknriver

Electric Main/Aux Power

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Personally very interested in electric motors for main/auxiliary power and couldn't find a related thread. Thought we may be able to collect information/experiences in their use here.  I experimented with a 12v 55# Minn Kota trolling motor on our CS15 couple of months ago and was happy with the result; ~3-4 mph w/2 aboard on calm creek for about 2 hrs at 1/2-3/4 throttle using 1/3 of a gr 31 AGM. Almost imperceptible motor noise.  Hope to go lithium when prices of good ones go down.  Tried a small Torquedo (1003 I think) a while back but didn't like its "whine" under power.  Going to try the Minn Kota on the 12' Amanda I hope to finish in FL this winter to scout gators and birds.  Your experiences/thoughts/ideas?  Thanks, RickZ

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Short of going with a straight inboard engine, which restricts some of the shallow water cruising, thee are trolling motors that's mounted to outboard legs and mounted on trim tabs for sportfishing boats.  This gives you the motor underwater with a controller in hand or mounted to a bracket on deck. This still comes down to battery life.  Of course when using on saltwater there can be some drawbacks when selecting most of the well known trolling motor setups that can be modified for use to push the boat. This may be the cheapest direction. I personally would think about just how many times and hours I will be using it to justify going in the direction of the upper priced ranged units and setup.

If you have time to kill, follow some of these links , which the units can be modified for remote mounts to the transom and removal too.

 
 
 
 
 
I don't anything about these units. But I have seen them mentioned in the past on the web. It does look like they do cost a bit more than I would spend for an occasional cruise for bird watching.
 
Ray electric outboard
 
When all else fails, contact the owner  here and see what he uses for his inboard setup and charging arrangement.

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I recently bought a dandy little electric motor called an EP Carry.  See smallboatsmonthly.com/article/ep-carry . I've tested it on a Sabot and Michael Storer Rowboat and plan to carry it as an auxiliary on the CS17 and perhaps even the Belhaven 19.   It comes with a fancy 14 pound battery that will provide full speed for an hour.  I suspect I could go quite some distance at low speed in calm conditions using the Belhaven house battery bank.  

Too early for a review, but it certainly seems like the real deal.

Randy

 

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Thank you for the info Randy.  Seems like a nice light unit. Be great to see some numbers on boat speed and battery duration when time permits for the 17 & 19. I'm going to try and get some more soon on my CS15. Rick

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Correction to my previous post.  EP Cary motor is 14 pounds, battery is 6 pounds.  I tested it on my CS17 and achieved 2.9 knots (sails stowed on mast, 500 lb crew).  Ran for over an hour at full throttle without noticeable drop in speed until the very end.   There is some mechanical motor noise at full speed but it is nothing relative to a gas outboard. 

I'm quite pleased.  I'll get some video once I get a proper motor bracket.

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Thank for the addition info Randy.  Sounds pretty good.  Should then push my CS15 maybe 3-3.5 and our Amanda even more under similar loads.  Seems quite a bit of use off a  9+ ah battery, and i like that they're assembled here, hopefully with high quality cells.  I emailed EP to see if a heavier 50 ah 24v LiPO (30#, $1K) battery can be used for extra range, and if they have a power cable that can be bolted to a general purpose LiPO battery, e.g. one from Battleborn or a like source instead of their battery.  Maybe In your BH19.  Will keep all posted as I learn more.  Rick

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Received a quick response from the EP Carry mfg; "Yes, any 24v battery with the same bolt-on type terminals as our K2 Energy batteries have will work with EP Carry.  You simply need to order an additional connector cable for $70.  That can be ordered via mail or phone.  And yes, the EP Carry motor can run continuously without any performance issues."  If battery connections the same, and you want to use a larger battery, may be able to order motor at lower cost without the smaller battery (or keep it for back-up). Would have to do our own testing for range with other size LiPO batteries, unless we can find some on the web. Rick 

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Rick,

CS15 and CS17 form drag is identical and we're moving below hull speed so my guess is it will be all about wetted surface area.  I think you might to 3.5 knots.   In any case I'm sure it will be faster than you can row.

Chuck has an excellent point about these batteries.  You use all their energy than boom, they're dead.  I think two batteries makes sense and am considering adding a second identical battery as reserve.  We'll see what Santa thinks about it.   

 

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I've considered electric power for my "motor canoe". I have a motor, but it's a lot bigger than I need. 40# thrust, but "ya use watcha got". I would carry 2 batteries for the range. It has a rheostat speed control which is vary inefficient. Better to have a modulated pulse control like the more expensive motors.

 

Great book about all of this is Electric Boats: The Handbook of Clean, Quiet Boating  by Douglas Little.

 

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Thanks for the tip on the Electric Boats book Chick. You might find that 40# handy in wind/current. Hope to get the Amanda hull in the water in FL by Jan and get some detailed numbers with my 55# MK max.  Also some data on the old 16# and 12# mini motors I plan to try on wife's 9' Hobie Mirage Sport yak, and my 14' Kevlar canoe.  LiPO's discharge curve is a challenge due to the rapid drop-off at the end of charge. Randy's 2 batts almost essential or some very accurate metering scheme. This old dog really needs the ~40-50% battery weight reduction though.  Be good to see any numbers anyone can get on their boats when time and weather permits :-). Tks, Rick 

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I think I've come to this thread a bit late, but I am glad to see all the info and posts. We've been playing with electric boating for 35+ years and it's really a wonderful way to push a boat along! 

 

Over the years we've tried a good many trolling motors and liked the results, but have recently been using the German Torqeedo motors more. Expensive, but a LOT of features and a lot of power in a compact design. I have yet to explore their Ultralight series in person, but I think they will be a great replacement for our cut-down trolling motors we've used on both our Weekenders and the SoleXplor solar boats. 

 

I look forward to keeping an eye on this thread! 

Mike Stevenson

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Hi Mike, Thanks for joining us and your comments and ideas on promoting electric propulsion. Lots of fun plans you have developed. Thought of a 20" electric front wheel & LIPO batt like I have planned for wife's Sun3 delta trike, for your delta land sail car for calm days.  Might even use studded motorcycle ice racing tires for it on frozen lakes. Built an ice-board years ago from old skate & windsurfer pieces when MD creeks froze over.   Hoping to do a less expensiveTorqueedo-like package for my 12' skiff using 55# TM and 100 ah Battleborn 30# LIPOs, or 2 17# 50ah LIPOs for easier battery handling as I age.  Please keep us posted on any speed and endurance #s you collect with any boat & electric power combos you create. Keep "sparkin'"safely  Thanks, Rick

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I used the 55# Minn Kota on my weekender and it works great! I replaced the shaft from the motor with a short solid mounting near the side of the keel.  The control from the head was reworked into a dial switch in the cockpit that gives me total control.  Just steer with the rudder. The motor has taken me across the lake.  It makes people crazy to see the little boat jockeying around at the boat ramp under its' "mystery" power.

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Sounds like a really neat mod/application Rick. Be great if you could share a pic(s) here of the mount when time permits. Thanks, and happy, safe, sailing, R

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Meanwhile I have bought an Epropulsion spirit 1.0. I couldn’t try it out yet but it seems to have similar performance data to the Torqueedo 1003c except for the noise and it is considerably cheaper than the Torq. 1103c.

See how it behaves.

The battery can be connected by an extension so that its weight can be put in a less disturbing place

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Hi Wommasehn, Thank you for the information on your ePropulsion spirit 1.0.  I started reading about it on the internet today.  Some nice features, and some good reviews so far.  I'm waiting for more information on a U.S. dealer.  Seems they are more expensive than the Torqueedo 1003 here, by almost +$1,000 US but that could be a "marketing" experiment.  Will do more information searches. We were stationed in Bremerhaven, Germany 1966-69 and really enjoyed our stay. Please send us your impressions/reviews of the motor & battery when you have had a chance to use it for a while.  Enjoy your boating and please keep safe, especially with the virus challenges. Rick

 

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Hope all are well and keeping safe. Going to treat myself to a 50 ah, 15# weight Battleborn LIPO for Wife's yak and old 16# thrust trolling motor on her 50+# Hobie Mirage Sport.  Hopefully get 3-4 hrs exploring/charge. Motor gave me 3-4 kts last winter on choppy river with a heavy, too heavy 😞, AGM deep cycle.  If it works ok, will get a second 50 ah LIPO for my very light solo canoe and  old 10# thrust trolling motor, then tie the two batts in parallel to power a 55# trolling motor on our 12' wood sailing skiff.  LIPOs not submersible, and couldn't find a proper sized/shaped waterproof plastic box, so plan to put the 50 ah one in a Watershed submersible dry bag I have and add wproof wire glans through the bag. Will keep all posted, and welcome similar applications/experiments/results. Tks, Rick   

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Ok, its been a while now... At least I had a chance to try out the Epropulsion. As expected, it is quiet and powerful and good to maneuver. In other words, I am happy with it. As I didnt like the idea of having the weight of the battery so far aft and so high up I bought a 2 metre (fairly expensive) extension cable and stowed the battery under the side deck. This left the battery-holding-bracket bare and funny looking. I fashioned a wooden cap which also serves as a handle. I also had to make some modifications to fit it to the geometry of my particular boat. I have to tilt it up/down plus swing the bracket up/down.

Charging is done by shore power, or by solar panel or from the 12V-battery, so there are several options. If there is neither sunshine nor a socket at the jetty, I can stow the battery in my rucksack and carry it to some socket. It weighs about 10 kgs. The solar panel works only in bright sunshine. 

I measure speed by the GPs in my mobile phone, which is a bit fickle, so I got differing readings on max speed. It seems to be around 5 kts, which is clearly sufficient for me. Strange is that the 1000W Epropulsion is declared as equivalent to a 3 HP petrol-OB, but the max speed is significantly less as that of the 2,3 HP Honda, which pushed her to over 6 kts. I rarely drove it full throttle, because it was so loud. My normal travelling speed with the Honda was around 4,5 kts. At that speed, the Epropulsion gives me a range of around 90 minutes or so. Of course, going slower extends the range dramatically.

I nowhere found an note about the prop's pitch. Can anybody tell me, how I might measure it from the prop - just for curiosity.

Foto 18.06.20, 17 25 08.jpg

Foto 18.06.20, 17 54 13.jpg

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Many thanks for the information, pictures, and performance data on the Epropulsion and battery mounting.  Seems like 3-5 kts is about normal for light small sailboats/skiffs with easily portable E motors.  I also believe at least some of the E motor claims are exaggerated when comparing them to gas OBs. I also have the 2.3 Honda, reliable, but too noisy for me.  What sailboat do you have it mounted on?  I've heard one option for less expensive extension cable wire is a heavy set of auto jumper cables with clips cut off and new terminals put on as needed.  What size/type battery are you using? 10 kgs is only a bit heavier than the dual  7 kgs, 50ah each, Lithiums I'm planning to use.  From your pictures, it looks like props are easy to refit in different sizes if needed, but don't know if pitch alternatives are offered by Epropusion.  Will check around.  

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