Terry Dunn

Thanks for sharing Hal. It looks like you are making good progress. I am not sure if watching other peoples builds satisfies my desire to build another boat or just makes me want to build one more. I started my CS20 in November of 2002 and had her in the water in August of 2003. She is never going to actually be finished, whatever finished is. I suspect a Mk3 is twice the work of a Mk I. It looks to me like you are making good progress toward a launch this summer.

Hi Hal, How is your build coming along? Got any more pics to share?

Where do you plan to launch?

Check out Duckworks for LED nav lights. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/electrical/index.htm

I am happy to see a 17.3 build in the Denver area. I am in Aurora and look forward to following a build where I will have a better chance of seeing the finished product. You look like you are off to a good start. Please keep the pictures coming and Post where you will be splashing your boat so I have a chance to see another CS in Colorado.

Great looking boat!

Good to see someone else is thinking about a balanced lug rig on a CS15. Here is my CS20 with balanced lug sails with one reef tied in when the wind died during the 2014 Texas 200. I have been considering downsizing my CS 20 and up-sizing my S10. If I do I will probably do a balanced lug variation of some sort. Here is my CS20 in the 2008 Texas 200. The standard sails are prettier than my one poly tarp one Dacron home sewn sails. There are pros and cons to each of my setups. Shorter masts that are very easy to step on the BL. No boom on the cat-ketch. Reefing difficulty is about the same. It is always fun to mess with the boats and try different things.

Here is a thread from last year: http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/8603-question-on-using-a-mast-step-assist-device/ The picture of me stepping the mast may be from 2004.

"I saw this setup in pics of the Texas 200 and am fascinated. Was that your boat? How does it sail?" I apologize for hijacking this topic a bit but it applies to the topic in some ways. Mattp, I sailed the T200 in 2008, 2011 and 2014. 2014 with the lug rig. 2008 and 2011 with the standard rig and blue and white sails. I lean toward reefing early and often so the lug rig had reefs in most of the time. In 2014 we did sail full sail the last 8 miles of the last day. The first day we were double reefed both sails all the way. The shorter masts are easy to step. With 2 yards and 2 booms there is more junk to deal with in the boat than the standard rig. For me, reefing was about the same effort for both the standard and lug rigs. The Core Sound 20 sails well with either rig. I made the change for two reasons. I wanted lighter, smaller masts to step and I just wanted to mess around with my boat. I sewed my own sails. First, two poly tarp sails. Then I sewed on Dacron sail and did the T200 with one Dacron sail and one poly tarp sail. I bought the Dacron material from Duckworks. Norm, In my opinion Aluminum masts with some sort of helpers similar to the PVC method is the easiest method to make stepping the masts easier. With that said I hope you go with some carbon fiber method and let us know how it works out.

I did the " PVC ring thing" on my CS 20 with 22' masts for quite a few years. It worked well for me but was ugly. They were really helpful when the wind was strong. I had to be careful taking the masts out not to pull past the PVC top. I used a 4" coupler. Recently I have been using 16' masts with two balanced lug sails. The 16' masts with no sail track are easy to step so I took off my PVC step helpers.

The Anderson bailer in my CS20 works at about 3.5 knots. At times I have stuck a screwdriver in it to open the flap. I have not noticed a problem with water coming back in through the bailer but I don't have it open that much while day sailing. It is great to have while the boat is on the trailer. In the 2008 Texas 200 we were getting quite a bit of water in the boat between the centerboard trunk and thwart so the bailer was useful. The extra flow of water via the centerboard trunk and thwart was helpful to clean the mud we got in the boat at Hap's cut. In the 2011 Texas 200 we did not take as much water between the centerboard trunk and the thwart so did not pay as much attention to the bailer. We shall see what happens this year. I considered putting a bailer in my S10 and actually bought one but have never installed it. We only use the S10 to row around with the grand kids occasionally. If I sailed my S10 and took a lot of spray I would probably be motivated to install the bailer but for now it is fine without.

Randy , I will look for you next weekend.

Wes, I have about 25 sq ft more sail area than the original rig.There wasn't enough wind to make any judgments regarding stability. The few minutes we sailed with wind was fun but not enough wind to be at the edge. Not sure yet how the helm will be. Pretty neutral with not much wind. I think my CE is a little aft of where it should be. The sails stay attached to the spars. Looking back on the day it probably was faster set up. Left home at 9:00 am for the 8 mile drive, stopped at subway to buy sandwiches, in the water at 10:00. With some tweaking and practice the set up should be pretty good. Tom, It will be a few weeks before I get the boat out again. I am retired so one would think I could hit the water more often but I need to visit my sister next week. She lives a couple hours drive from Port Townsend so I will get to swing by the wooden boat festival. Next time out I plan to practice reefing and hopefully will have enough wind at some point to actually need to reef. When I did the Texas 200 in 2011 there was never a time I did not have a reef in at least one sail. The leech flutter is interesting. Increasing the downhaul moves the flutter up the sail. Decreasing moves it down the sail. Not sure what I am going to do. More hollow to the leech. Battens. Just ignore it and sail. My CS20 is built per plan. No changes to the centerboard for the BL rig. I made 16' masts for the BL sails. My standard rig masts are 22'. I chose the boom length based on having clearance between the main and mizzen using the standard mast positions. Thanks for the Storer link. That is one I had not seen. I used another Mike Storer site for rigging info. The sail dimensions started from a Welsford 100 sqft SCAMP sail for PD Goose web site. I made the foot shorter ending with about 90 sqft per sail. No original thinking on my part. I have one loose footed and one laced to the boom. They are just toys to play with you know. I think I prefer the loose foot.

Here is a picture of the sails and my friend George:

I have worked off and on (mostly off) on a balanced lug rig for my CS 20. I made two 90 sq ft poly tarp sails. The idea is lazy sails with on sail in the middle position and not so lazy sails with both sails. A friend and I finally got around to going out with both sails in the local reservoir. The wind varied from no wind to just a little for most of the time. When it was time to go in the wind picked up and we had a few minutes of between 6 and 7 mph. I hollowed the leeches on the sails but I get quite a bit of leech flutter. My sail making skills are not so hot. But overall I am pleased with how they work. The main goal was to have a rig that sets up faster to get in the water faster. That goal was achieved when only using one sail. Not so much with both.

Bob, Dave's explanation is correct. The picture of m helper is the first I made. I made one a bit taller, more like the picture you included of Suzie's, which I am still using. Suzie's look better made than mine. It was too easy to pull the mast out of the shorter mast step helper by mistake. When reaching the point of downward force one can rest the foot of the mast on the device prior to putting the mast in the hole. My cat ketch masts are 22'. I suspect your CS 17 mast is a bit shorter. I am in the process of trying a balanced lug method. Got sidelined for a year and a half but back at it now. Those masts are 16'. They are easier to step but not a lot different with the helpers than the 22' masts.

Hi Fishman38, Looks like your dog knows how to pose for pictures. Regarding epoxy at altitude. I am at about 5600 ft altitude in Aurora, CO and do not think there are any issues with altitude for epoxy. I have built 2 stitch and glue boats and my only issue was lack of skill.

Unless you stick the masts into the mud. Don't ask how I know that.

I started a project over a year ago to try balanced lug sails on my CS 20. I made some 16' aluminum masts and sails out of polytarp. Then I herniated a disk so that got put on hold. I should be able to finish that project this spring. As usual I got a bit carried away and ended up with 90 sq ft sails. I put in two deep reefs. With the yard I expect about the same weight aloft. When I put a reef in the yard will be lower which may make a slight difference in how much weight is swinging around aloft. I look forward to seeing how, or if, it works out. If I like it I may sew some dacron sails to replace the polytarp. Time will tell. As stated by others a CS can handle some pretty good wind. I did manage to turn my CS 20 over once though. Operator error on a local reservoir. After that I converted to sail track with a couple of reef points in each sail. In the 2011 Texas 200 we were hitting 10 mph occasionally crossing Corpus Christy Bay with double reefs in the main and mizzen. The sails as designed work great. But I guess I just need to play with y boat. The advice to go with the as designed rig is good advice. It is well proven. It is possible to experiment after the fact with cheap materials such as polytarp. Enjoy your adventure.

Perhaps you need to check out periwinkle's lug ketch rig.

RC Bill, Eleven years ago I built my S10 out of cheap fir plywoood from a big box store. Real tough to bend. I did not have a clue what I was doing. Since it was fir I encapsulated in FG. This was my practice boat. I was not smart enough to figure out ahead of time that it may be cheaper to build with good marine plywood than spend the money on FG and expoxy. My S10 weighs over 130 lbs so she sits on a trailer. The following year I built my CS20 out of 6 MM okoume and 3/8" marine fir. So much easier to work with the okoume. I still have both boats sitting on trailers next to the house. The S10 is fun to take to the lake for the grandkids to row around. My CS20 is finished bright because I was to lazy to paint. Just slapped on some Marine spar urethane. The S10 is painted. I have seen a boat built with meranti finished bright and I think I like the looks of the meranti better than the okoume. Always a case of personal preference. Good to hear you are planning on quality plywood. I look forward to seeing pictures of your build.

Regarding stepping the masts on a CS 20. I found it awkward to step the masts and made some devices to help step the masts. Other builders have made similar devices that are more attractive then the ones I made. A tabernacle is is the way to go for the main. Stepping the masts by myself is quite easy. A google search can show interesting things. http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/7559-does-anyone-remember-a-post-about-pivoting-mast-steps/page__st__-20 There are some pictures of my mast step hepers from 2004.

I was there Saturday. If she was out I probably walked pased her and did not check her out. Gotta pay more attention in the future.

NO gasoline motors. Makes it great for sailing. I can lend you paddles or oars. Perhaps a grandchild to row .. but that would probably be more trouble that worth.

As you are probably aware, there aren’t any large bodies of water close to Denver. If you want quiet (no gasoline motors) and not crowded I suggest Aurora reservoir. It is probably the closest. I have not been out this year so I don’t know the water level. A daily pass is $10 plus a one time boat fee I think is $10. This time of the year is usually cal but conditions can change rapidly. Current weather: https://www.auroragov.org/ThingsToDo/Reservoirs/AuroraReservoir/CurrentWeatherConditions/index.htm Noisy, crowded, Cherry Creek or Chatfield. Chatfield is larger. I have not been there. Daily parks charge at each of these. If you want a larger lake with more sailboats, Dillon Reservoir. The Dillon water level is down but the marina ramp is open and good. We drove up there last Saturday foe lunch and to see a Scamp and first launch of a Sage 17. Wind was good. Afternoon rain is common. Ramp open 8:30 to 5:30. There is Pueblo Reservoir as well which is larger but I have not been there.