Terry Dunn

I built my CS 20 in a double garage 20' 7" deep. I kept it on a cradle with castors and was able to put my wife's car in the garage as well when I had my mess cleaned up. I cut my wood on my deck so I did not need room for that stuff in the garage. So it is doable without too much trouble. If you are going to load her with a bunch of people on a regular basis the 20 may be the way to go. I have enjoyed my 20 but now that I am 7 years older I kind of wish I had the 17. I could get a 17 in my garage on the trailer when I want to work on the boat without putting it diagonally . The 17 would be less weight to launch and retrieve. Smaller masts to step. I chose the 20 because it was the biggest boat I could build in my garage.

The first 4 years with my mast step helpers I left the main mast in the pvc and put a board in the mizzen and lashed the masts together while trailering. That worked pretty well. After about 10,000 road miles the helper on the main broke while driving home from the '08 t200. Since then I pull my masts out of the PVC and support them at the main, mizzen mast steps and the transom. Works better for the cover as well. There is no actual disconnecting. The bottom of the masts slide in a few inches, pop the mast upright, drop it in. The reverse for un-stepping. I made a taller main helper than the pictures show as I tended to about pull it up to high when I was taking the main mast down. I cut a slot in the PVC when I put sail track on so I could lower the main to brush the foredeck to lower the center of force in stronger winds. In the '08 t200 we had two reefs in with the main down to the foredeck.

JeffM and I have created mast step helpers to step the masts on our CS 20s. They work great. Mine are ugly but I would not do without them. http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=2621.0

Grj, I was in about the same place you are in 2001. I built a spindrift 10 as a practice boat. I used $13 fir plywood because I wanted to go cheap on my practice boat. Then I realized I needed to fiberglass the whole thing to avoid the checking. I glassed all but the transom. The year following the S10 I built a CS 20. The S10 has been upside down next to the garage with a cover on it ever since. I just recently glassed the transom and plan to put the S10 back in service to row around with the grand children. I spent more on my cheap S10 that it would have cost for good ply by the time the extra epoxy and fiberglass was included. My S10 is a bit on the heavy side as well. I think I chose the S10 because I thought I would car top it. Mine turned out to heavy for me to car top. If your target is a Core Sound, I suggest you build a Core Sound to begin with. or perhaps a Bay River Skiff. Good luck and have fun.

Regarding mast height questions I would say: I don't know, I don't think so and no, you are not being a whus. My masts are higher than specified ( 22' vs 20' 5" or so) on my CS20 because I don't read plans real well. I do like more clearance under the bottom of my sails. However I would only suggest taller masts when you have sail tracks and reefing. Then you have the option of easily lowering your center of force. A vinyl winow would be nice but wouldn't it be lost after the first reef unless you put in more than one window? I did manage to about run into a ferry dock with a reef in and the bottom of my main close to the deck. Gotta remember to watch wher I am going. If you rarely have a need to reef a window is probably a good option. I think extending the mast with a plug on the top may be a better idea than a plug to extend the mast at the bottom. That would keep the integrity of the mast and mast step to insure force is exerted at the bottom of the mast tube rather than the middle.

I hang 9' oars on some brackets under the side decks on my CS 20. I put a line around the oars and brackets to keep them in place while trailering. The brackets are plywood attached to the side deck gussets. I attached 2x4 blocks to the front bulkhead routed to accept the end of the oars. I don't know if that kind of method would work for a cs17. It might be more fun to come up with a novel method to store 9' 9" oars than to cut them down. My neighbor was throwing away some old doors so I am in the process of making some oars out of them. Not a real good idea as the styles are attached to the rails with wood dowels. Leaves some hols in iteresting places. When I finish I can figure out where to store them in addition to my existing oars. It may take another year. Oh well. It is more fun than painting the house.

Hi Randy, My Anderson Bailer is located about even with the rear of the centerboard slot on the other side of the keel from the centerboard. It takes a bit of speed to work but it sucks like crazy when I get up enough speed. Last year prior to the T200 I had had my center thwart off and had not sealed it properly. Lots of water squirting into the boat. In one place and out the bailer. My son Brian and I had a running argument going because he did not like the sucking sound when the water emptied out so he would close the bailer. Then I would open it when we got a little water in the boat.

On my CS 20 I put the hatch in the middle of the aft seat as well. It is OK most of the time.There have been a few occasions when it was not as convienient. Like when I put charts in that hatch and wanted to get them out while underway. My tiller does not lift up and down. I have a 5hp tohatso 4 stroke long shaft that I clamp directly to the transom. The center of the motor is 15.5" from the center of the transom. If I turn my motor hard and don't turn the tiller the propeller will strike the rudder. The transom where the motor is mounted is 1x6 + 1/4" ply across the top with 1x6 down to the bottom sandwiched between 3/8" plywood on the inside and outside. The sheets for the mizzen foul on the motor when it is tipped up. I went with 5hp for full gearshift, remote tank and enough power at 9,000 ft. We don't use the motor for local sailing so it does not get much use. Until I took it to Texas last year it had not been used for two years. The 5 is 60 lbs. If I was doing it over, I would go for a motor 40lbs or less.

Tough decision between a CS 20, CS 17 and BRS 15 and BRS 17. I measured my garage to decide how big a boat to build. My garage is 20' 7" so I figured I could build a CS 20. It worked. I may have had an inch to spare. For my use a CS 17 would have been just fine 99% of the time and would be easier to handle. Probably easier to row as well. Launching and retrieving my CS 20 has not been a problem where I have sailed. I have had 6 people in my CS 20 a few times. There are time I think I should have built a 17 and times I am glad I built the 20. Perhaps you should build one of each and let us know how it works out. Pulling a CS 20 out of the water onto a beach would be a bit tough. It would probably take 6 of me. I think pulling a CS 17 out of the water would be a bit tough as well. Perhaps 4 of me. With inflatable rollers it might take less effort than I think. Something to think about. I suppose 20 years ago 4 of me would be equivalent to 6 of me at my current age. I have not sailed in a 17 but I have seen my 20 and Tim

High altitude mountain lakes. Cold water. Sudden changes in wind direction and velocity. Afternoon thundershowers. Wait a minute. That sounds like the reservoir just down the road. About 5700 feet. Although the water isn't as cold as the 9,000 ft lakes. Yep. That is the boat with the blue and white sails. The core sound boats do have nice lines. It is difficult to see the sails in that picture. If you look close at the bottom of the boat you can see the 3/8" doug fir ply I used for the bottom four panels. I used okoume for the rest. I am from the NW and had to have some doug fir. I was not smart enough to fiberglass the doug fir inside under the seats so there is some checking inside the hatches. I should have used okoume or meranti rather then the doug fir. There really wasn't much difference in the price as I did use marine doug fir from Edensaw. I ripped regular lumber yard 2X stock for the dimensional lumber. Used a 2X4 for the keel batten and keel. It was all marked doug fir. Nowadays all I see here is hemlock fir. Butt joints on the panels. Twice as much epoxy as it should take. I couldn't decide what color to pait her so she is finished with Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane to protect from UV. Hope it works. The amazing part is my wife has gone out in the boat again after I dumped her in the water. I suspect she goes along to save me if I need it. She may be right.

Here you go: http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=5532.0

I have a long shaft 5 hp 4 stroke for my cs20. It has more power than necessary. It weighs close to 60 pounds and hangs in my garage most of the time. I went for 5 hp because I live in Colorado and have had my boat on lakes at 9,000 ft. I was concerned about less power at altitude. I may try to trade it for a Honda 2 hp. If you want to curb your wife's enthusiasm about the boat I could send you pictures of my boat upside down in Cherry Creek with the masts stuck in the mud.

Hi Joel, If you ever get to the Denver area you are welcome to come by and look at the Core Sound 20 that reefed the first day in the Texas 200. There are lots of pictures of my CS 20, Tim's CS 17, Graham's EC 22 and Travis's Princess 22 along with all of the other pretty boats on the texas200.com web site. Brian and I pulled off and put two reefs in the main and mizzen when we entered the land cut the first day of the t200. We clocked 9.8 mph AFTER we put the reefs in. There may have been a current in our favor as well. I often wonder what speed we would have hit had we not reefed that first day. I also wonder if we would have managed to stay upright. We reefed quite a bit during the event. Tim and Pete had their staysail up for a bit during the first day and were catching Brian and I for a while. It got a bit hairy for them and they took it down. If you do decide to build a Core Sound I recommend sail tracks and reef points. I started with sleeved sails. I could get set up a lot faster with the sleeved sails but it is nice to be able to reduce sail when the wind comes up. I converted to sail track and converted my sleeved sails as well. If you build a 20 the tabernacle for the main mast is probably a good idea as well. I enjoyed building my CS 20. I am not a craftsman so my boat is a bit rough around the edges. But it floats and works well.

I built mine with 8' .065 sections from online metals as well. Shipped UPS. Very reasonable. Quick service.

http://texas200.com/ At the end of last years I think someone described it as a "moving messabout".

I regret that I will not be doing the T200 this year. It is great event. I hope to be able to do it in 2010. Not a day goes by that I don't think about what I would leave behind and what I would take along "next time". If anyone is on the fence about doing the T200 I recommend going for it. The nicest bunch of people you will ever find. Good wind. Just puts a smile on your face.

The mizzen sheet on my CS 20 is set up like Brent's method. My main sheets go to cam cleats on each side of the thwart. I had them on the coaming but moved them to the thwart. I tend to sit just behind the thwart most of the time. Although on the T200 I generally sat further back and had the sheet cleated but in my hand most of the time. Actually my son was on the tiller most of the time at first and I just enjoyed the ride. He figured out he was doing all of the work on the tiller halfway towards the end of the second day so I was at the tiller more after that. With One mizzen, two main and the centerboard downhaul in cam cleats on the thwart it is a bit busy. I may move the mizzen sheet back to the double ended method just to reduce the number on the thwart. Especially since I am considering running the mizzen snotter to the thwart to make it easier to tighten. My motor had not been used for two years but I took it on the T200. Since it is mounted on the transom the mizzen sheets still fouled on the motor. If I am allowed to do the T200 again by management (perhaps in 2010) I hope to leave the motor at home along with some other stuff. The main snotter, halyard and three downhauls are run back to cleats on the deck on the starboard side about even with the thwart. I am not sure there is much advantage to bringing them back that far. I end up by the foredeck tying the reef in anyway.

To fit my 1987 trailer (it was cheap) to my CS 20 I shimmed the rear of the bunks to get them to fit. My boat is supported by the bunks and has been trailered 10,000 miles on road trips. With that said, I have had some problems with my centerboard trunk that may have been partly caused by the way my boat is supported on the trailer. Some people (that would be me) just don't listen to the great advice provided in this forum. I have a couple of old rollers that I want to use but there are only two places on my trailer they can be mounted easily. They would be about 4 feet apart. If I do that I will replace the rollers with some new poly rollers. Good advice.

On my CS 20 the 9' oars are suspended under the side decks. The blades go into a slot on a 2x4 chunk attached to the front bulkhead. The handles go in "J" shaped pieces under the side decks. I put a line around the "J" piece's to hold the oars when trailering. Somtimes bumps knock the port oar off when trailering. I had not used my motor for two years but took it on the Texas 200. Since I had the motor along I don't think I took the oars out of their holders after the morning of the first day.

I look forward to someone doing the Florida 120, Texas 200, Outer banks 130 and Columbia 150 in the same year. Did I get them in the correct order?

Marvin, I used .065" for all of my sections for my CS 20. Got them from onlinemetals. Perhaps Graham can comment about .065" for your CS 17.

I have a bimini on my CS 20. I have standard sails, no battens. No stay sail. With the 22' mast my mizzen clears the bimini. We have not used the bimini much and I don't have a picture under way with the bimini up. Here is one with the bimini folded down.

Interesting. On #36 my masts are both 22'. I have standard sails. Lots of room to look under when they are raised to the top. On the Texas 200 at one point we had two reefs in both sails and had the main brushing the deck. Other times without reefs we had the sails pretty low for stability. After we passed where the ferry crossed in the Coupus Christi shipping channel we about ran into a dock because we had the sails low and forgot we couldn't see through them. After that we paid better attention to the blind side when we had the sails lower to the deck.

As Charlie said, Tim and Pete went flying by in the CS 17. Brian and I wathced them fly by as we stopped and put in two reefs in our CS 20. We had the main low scraping the deck. We hit 9.8 mph on the GPS double reefed in the land cut. I doubt we would have stayed upright had we not stopped to reef. A good time to be sure.

I had that problem with some system 3 resin. I put the container in hot water to warm it up. Worked for me.