Lotus Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Is Poplar, Tulip Poplar, Yellow Poplar wood suitable for boat building instead of fir ?. I'm referring for stem, keel and side stringers . Any advantages or disadvantages on fir ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I use poplar for most everything. My boats are all B&B designs and for all of the non plywood parts. I like it over fir for three reasons. 1. I like the way it looks. 2. I like the way it works. and 3. I get it very inexpensively from local sawmills. I buy it rough cut and plane it on a small portable planer. You can check out my latest build here: http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/9480-core-sound-17-mk-3-summer-breeze/ Some of the parts that came with the kit are fir, but if they didn't come with it I would have used poplar. On a "big boat" or "yacht" you may want to us fir for the applications you mentioned. I'm sure you'll get plenty of response on the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 There was a really funny, talented Southern boatbuilder and writer (and...) who built lots of pretty little boats from tulip poplar... Man, I miss his stories and ramblings. I'm going to go read some of his stories right now. Jimmy of the Hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Hey Robert, where can I find his stories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Robb White is who I mean. He wrote cute little essays for years in Messing About magazine. He got two books I know. How to Build (make?) a Tin Canoe, and Flotsam and Jetsam. I'm out in the, ahem, work shop, so my bookshelf ain't close. Twain, Vonnegut, Saroyan funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Poplar was pretty good stuff once, but now, not so much. There was a time that yellow covered most every barn in many areas of the country, but now finding real yellow isn't practical. Farm raised poplar is now a hybrid of a few different subgenius of poplar. Yellow once was highly prized, but now is lighter, don't hold fasteners as well, doesn't stain well and has poor rot resistance. I miss Robb too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Thanks for the reply . My intentions are to build the ocracoke 20 . So should I use this wood ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Robert. Thanks. I wondered if that was who you meant. I have Flotsam and Jetsam. I've read it several times! PAR. The poplar here is not farm raised. It grows all over up here. I'm guessing it's Yellow, but maybe tulip. I'm not sure I'll have to find out. It may be both. Lotus. If you can get it where you are the way I do, I'd use it. I have no idea what you have in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Action Tiger Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 See, that's the thing about wood. I get cheap Doug fir cut rough that might curl your toes, because it's all over over here. Also, you really should see some of this lodge pole pine... Good wood don't come from lumberyards or stores, mostly, but from little sawmills. I'm not even kidding about the quality wood you can get from a tree guy or sawyer. They do exist. Get good quality (more like the left half of that board than the right) wood that is moderately rot resistant and holds fasteners fairly well. I'm pretty sure somebody built a boat out of European wood at least once... What did you use for your pretty red boat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Ludwig Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Robert, if you mean MY "pretty red boat", why poplar of course. Poplar is very popular with me! I agree on "good wood". Good straight grain with out much "runoff", with the grain lines close ogether is the best to use usually. Holding fasteners doesn't concern me much since it's all glued with miracle poxy anyway. Same with rot resistance as my boats sit on a trailer or hang overhead, both under roof. Don't get doug fir here. Anywhere. Wish we did! Love those little local sawmills. Well, I suppose the Mother Country built a few boats in her time. The Europeans used up all of their good trees long ago. I learned when I lived over near New Bern, that most of our long leaf pine was used up in the "Colonies" way back during colonial days. Lumber and naval stores was big industry then. All got used in His majesty's ships! Along with most of the live oak. Cypress pretty much went away over the years, too. What was left was pretty well picked over until the un-civil war when steam and steel ended the need for naval stores and ship building lumber business. But then these United (Kind of) States started gobbling the remainder up for various building needs. Ever hear what happened to all of the trees on Easter Island/ Good lesson for us. Enough messing around with y'all now. I guess I'm rested up enough to get back to sanding, sanding, san...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meester Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 For what it's worth, here's a video showing a simple porosity test using alcohol. It shows pretty dramatically how red oak will soak up more water than white oak. And why whiskey barrels are made from white oak. Maybe this would be a way to test poplar (or whatever) if there's a chance that rot might be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Encapsulated, red oak works and is considerably lighter than the whites. A better demonstration of the reds porosity, would be to rip a 1/4" square, by several inch long piece. Stick it in a glass of water, like a soda straw and blow on one end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Meester, very interesting video ! I tried this with a mixture of thinner and red stain and tested a 3 inches long tulip ( the only tulip that we can buy in our country ) and it sucked the spirit like a drunk drinker all the way trough in a couple of seconds !! This type of wood we have here is definitely not suitable for boat building Action Tiger, if you referred to my red boat, I used red real wood, that showed a very good result with the same test ! The only problem with red deal is that we can only find kiln dried wood and is very difficult to bend or twist . All solid woods here are imported from different countries for furniture use so kiln dried is preferred ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 That video is great. I used white oak for the keel on my Spindrift 11N. It is said to not glue well as it doesn't have the porosity as demonstrated, but I have a cheap blade I put in my tablesaw that I purposely bent a tooth just a bit. It leaves a nice rough glue surface and I haven't had any problems with adhesion on many projects over the years using it. It has taken a beating on the bottom of the Suzy J and doesn't absorb water even when the paint is worn off. As for the poplar....I don't have much to offer. I've been using Douglas Fir for stuff likely to be wet and eastern white pine for all other cleat stock. I think if the boats trailer sailed and well encapsulated it becomes less important than a boat sitting in a slip with rain water in it's bilge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meester Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I also read somewhere that the white oak doesn't glue well, but the reason given was because of oils it contains. The solution was to give it a wipe with acetone & let dry to get rid of the oil before gluing. Sorry I can't give you a pointer to where I read that. Coulda been PAR. Sounds like his kind of trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Acetone alone works, though I use a combination of chemicals. A quick scrub, let it dry (a few minutes) and immediately apply epoxy. We had a boat show here this weekend and I had the pleasure to see a boat I restored back in '03. I did laminated white oak frames (38 of them) in a moderately heavy power cruiser. They looked like the day I installed them, so white oak can be epoxied, with good prep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 I have been gluing up Teak for many years using a good acetone scrub immediately before gluing. I see no reason to encapsulate Teak. Moisture content matters a lot for encapsulating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I encapsulate teak veneers, but planking stock is left raw. The last teak veneers I did where about 1/10" thick (pretty thick as veneers go) and the epoxy leached through after bagging them down. It wasn't a complete coating, but about 50% of the surface had epoxy oozing through. All oily woods can use this treatment, though straight acetone can leave stuff, because it flashes so fast, which is why I use a mix (toluene, xylene and acetone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirilonde Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 All oily woods can use this treatment, though straight acetone can leave stuff, because it flashes so fast, which is why I use a mix (toluene, xylene and acetone). All 3 of those flash off very quickly. Mixing them slows it down? If slowing the flash down is important, why not just add a little mineral spirits? I don't use xylene at all. It is a known carcinogen. Acetone is quite safe, other than being really flammable and dries your skin. I guess I have never seen anything left behind and have never had an oily wood glue up fail. I epoxy all exposed veneers and plywoods. No serious ding/scratch/gouge in a veneer will repair easily anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meester Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 In one of the labs where I work we have been moving over to ensolv for cleaning metal parts that have to be super clean. It is supposed to be less toxic and non-flammable, etc. Maybe it'd be worth a test to see how it works with gluing. Actually, now that I think about it maybe I should 'liberate' a small amount to see how it works for epoxy clean-up for the final touch after vinegar. Hmm. BTW, Happy Easter! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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