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CS 17 20 MPH wind and single mast


Jim Stumpf
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Third season with the boat and I have never sailed her under mizzen alone in the 3rd mast position. Works very well, what a well behaved lady this design is. Noticed a slight loss of ability to point as high as cat-ketch rigged and found I was over sheeting and causing some weather helm. Dropping off the wind a bit slacking the sheet a bit and tweaking the centerboard and she balanced right out. The video was shot earlier in the day with winds between 18-20 with the boat sailing herself as I shot cell phone video. Later in days the wind was a pretty constant 20, average speed was just about 5.5 MPH and a couple of 6.5's in a puff. Not bad for the reduced sail and very little heel, never had to jump to the rail. Enjoy the video and don't hesitate to try the single sail set up in a blow.

 

Jim

http://youtu.be/tIVk7jEcTPE

 

 

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Yep, once I set up to make the mast tubes I just went crazy and put them everywhere.  :D

 

The step at the mizzen is supper strong and I never have a problem missing the base once the mast is threaded through the thwart. There are pictures at my build if you follow the link in my signature, hope that helps.

 

IMG_20120508_072559.jpg

 

Jim

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I wasn't going to put the third mast step in because it seemed like if ever I need to reef that way I won't be in a position to move the mast. However, with the position of the oar locks on the plans and need to sit on the center thwart to row, it seems like in order to row I would need to move the mast to the third position, so I plan to add it now. Make sense?

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I don't see a down side to putting in the third location, especially if you do it during the build. Here it is 3 years after the build and I do not remember the time it took me to do it.  Here in Ohio the water temps are currently in the low 50's (not ideal for a capsize), with a stiff breeze and sailing single handed it made sense to reef before even launching. You would have to be a hell of a man to keep that 20 foot mast balanced strait up in the air to relocate it/reef on the water if it were rough enough to warrant the move, in my opinion it can only be safely done when beached or docked. Safety is rule number one even more so now that summer has left the house. Weather people are talking about a white Halloween ugh.

 

Jim

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I've reefed on the water using the third step in bad weather. There was a storm approaching and the wind built to an unmanageable level (for an unreefed rig) quickly with even stronger gusts. It would have been easier if there had been someone to man the tiller at the time, but I was alone. Practicing a few times in good weather does help, but it's also good to remember that you will have to adjust to the conditions when things are rougher.

The thing I think I did wrong was heaving to in order to roll the main up on the mast (luff-sleeve sails). It would have been easier if I raised the centerboard, secured the tiller amidships, unsheeted both sails and ran before the wind to furl the main.

I agree with you that it's better to do it on shore, but sometimes the weather comes up when you don't expect it.

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Thanks all. I think I will add the third position but do it quick and dirty with no tube. In the unusual event I use it she shall be tubeless but have three holes to rest in (deck, seat,mast step), I'll be able to sit and row, and I'll be sailing in this lifetime. :)

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I plan to put my oarlocks where I can row forward of the mizzen mast straddling the CB case on some sort of remove able seat. I saw a Graham post on this some time ago and he noted a good oarlock location for this.

In the meantime, I am ok with a paddle. This boat does fine with a J stroke at least for a short distance.

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Lennie,

 

My opinion again.  I have the third mast position with the tube.  I have never used it except one time in very light air just to test it.  I would not recommend it if you are going to use sail track and have reefing points in your sails.  You will not need it.  The discussion above is exactly why I feel it is not a usable idea.  You basically, have to decide before you go out to move to the third hole.  It the times I have had to reef on the water, it would have been impossible to move a mast and insert it in the third hole.

 

I actually have installed two rowing positions on 'Lively'.  At the time I built her I was thinking about entering the EC Challenge.  This would have given me the ability to have both sailors rowing.  I did not know it at the time but have since discovered that the forward rowing station can be used with the mizzen in its normal position.  If I were to do it again I would install the forward rowing position and forget the aft position.

 

dale

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I did not opt for the middle mast step on CS17 #351 La Perla and we have sailed under reefed mizzen only (no main) and the boat sailed just fine in about 25 kt of wind.  In close quarters or when singlehanding and coming into a harbor i have sailed with just the mizzen and the boat handles very well; it helps to pull the board part way up for balance.  It would not be practical or safe to switch mast positions on the water the way our boat is rigged with wishbone booms.  

 

Lennie, I have my boat in Pine Island if you ever want to check it out...I'll be there the last two weeks in Nov.  i just put the forward rowing position in so I can brace my feet against the mizzen mast when rowing...I can get you the measurements for the oar locks when I'm down there.  I just put a big block of wood glued under the side deck and installed a G-10 tube for 5/8" NRS heavy duty bronze oar locks.  I made 10'-6" carbon oars and in the last Everglades Challenge we put it all to the test rowing the last 12 miles in a flat calm.  Avg speed about 2.5 kt.

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Thanks much Phil! I appreciate your offer, your input and will certainly try to see you in SW FLORIDA! :)

At this point I want to finish with the pre- deck structure, close her up and move on and splash. Those folks in Bayboro NC this weekend motivated me and I now know there is much to look forward to beyond the build.

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I plan to drop in a block for oars at right spot and ignore the one that is there...Thanks for the input. The chances of rowing much is remote except for leaving docks etc. I have the motor for these situations but might as well have the oars In the right spot for when I need them. Any input appreciated.

post-3404-0-74762900-1414719033_thumb.jpg

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From an earlier thread. This forward position is what I plan to do...eventually.

I put in two sets of oarlocks on my CS17. The forward set is 12" forward of the forward edge of the center thwart and the aft set is 10" aft of the aft edge of the cener thwart.

The forward set seems well positioned and we used them when rowing with one person to avoid the mizzen mast. With two people rowing which worked very well we rowed staggered with the stronger rower aft so that he can control the course . I think that in the future I will move the aft oarlocks 2" further aft.

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  • 1 year later...

I've reefed on the water using the third step in bad weather. There was a storm approaching and the wind built to an unmanageable level (for an unreefed rig) quickly with even stronger gusts. It would have been easier if there had been someone to man the tiller at the time, but I was alone. Practicing a few times in good weather does help, but it's also good to remember that you will have to adjust to the conditions when things are rougher.

The thing I think I did wrong was heaving to in order to roll the main up on the mast (luff-sleeve sails). It would have been easier if I raised the centerboard, secured the tiller amidships, unsheeted both sails and ran before the wind to furl the main.

I agree with you that it's better to do it on shore, but sometimes the weather comes up when you don't expect it.

Ken,

I found this entry you wrote very interesting.  Since my BRS15 will have luff sleves, I might find myself in the same situation.  I, too, would have hove-to.  Let me ask-- did you roll in the main before or after relocating the mizzen?  Also, did you use the sheets from the main or the mizzen?  These have been questions I've pondered for a long time.  

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   Hi Don,

   The main has to be rolled up before the mizzen is moved, otherwise the mizzen mast can foul the main sprit boom and make the day suddenly wet and splintery.

   I don't recommend moving the mast while on the water.  I have heard from at least one person (Alan S?) that the boat (CS17) will sail alright with the main rolled up, the mizzen in the normal mizzen step and the centerboard partially retracted.  I can't remember if I ever tried that myself but it makes sense.  If nothing else, it seems like a good way to get back to a sheltered place so the mizzen can be re-stepped in a more civilized manner.

   I don't remember exactly how I rigged the mizzen sheets when the mast was in the third step but I do remember it was not the normal setup.  That's the kind of thing that's fun to play around with on a nice day, though.  Go out sometime when the wind is blowing 15 knots and use the third step just to see how the boat sails.

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