CS20 cuddy cabin / hard dodger

[wkisting]

Hi all,

I'm in the midst of building a removable cuddy / hard dodger for our CS20. After a lot of cardboard templates, I have the pieces cut and stitched together and it is coming along well. Mainly it will be a place to deflect spray and provide shade for our little girl when we sail next summer (can't have her baking in the hot Georgia sun). It's about 21" deep (i.e., covers only the leading 21" of the cockpit), and the roof slopes fairly steeply from about 6" above deck at the forward edge to about 15" above deck at the aft edge. Just high enough to duck under or lay under (or sit up comfortably if you sit on the floor).... closer to a glorified windshield than a cuddy cabin, I suppose. But so far it is looking cool and is very lightweight.

Anyway... I've never seen another cuddy or hard dodger in person, but as I think through the finish details, I'm wondering if there are any typical or desirable interior details that it should possess. Obviously, it adds a bit more storage room, so do people usually rig a cuddy/hard dodger with shelves for stowing small gear? Or handrails for going forward? What should a "proper" one look like when finished?

[Peter HK]

Mainly it will be a place to deflect spray and provide shade

From yesterday's experience it certainly looks like everyone needs that

[wkisting]

Hmmm... looks like the forum update deleted my hard dodger pictures again. Here's the current state of things (except that I've also begun to add a little bit of interior support to bolster the stiffness of the roof). The dodger is 5 1/2" above deck at the front, then it sweeps aft for 22", while rising to an approximate height-above-deck of 14".

I'm debating right now whether to add windows in the front face. I'm also pondering the best way to attach it securely to the deck without (ideally) needing to mount permanent hardware that will show when it is removed. My gut is telling me to try heavy duty bungee cord in each of the four corners, wrapping down under the deck to four hidden hooks (?). I know that would work for sailing, but I'd like the mount to be secure enough that I can leave the dodger in place while trailering also.

[sitearch]

It looks great Wes. I built a big cuddy as you will recall on my CS 20 and it has proven very useful to my family. Of course it is 8 feet long but I sail in Alaska and we need to really get in some times.

Happy building.

Bob Clayton

Alaska

[sitearch]

Oops forgot the other picture.

Sorry about that. Here is my cuddy finished.

Bob Clayton

[wkisting]

Yep, I've seen those pics... very nice looking and it would be a treat for sleeping aboard. I really like the open boat feel so I made my dodger/cuddy very minimalist... just enough to deflect spray and sun to provide shelter for the forward occupants. But it will also provide a secure attachment point for a canvas tent body for sleeping aboard. Yours looks very inviting, though!

If I were doing it over, I would very seriously consider building a slightly raised deck over the forward bulkhead compartment (not as high as a true cabin though) so that a person could slide up under there and lay down to sleep or take shelter. On our boat, the space forward of the bulkhead is essentially wasted. We never stow anything there because it is so large and deep. It would've been neat (had I thought of it during the build) to modify that forward area to accommodate a minimalist sleeping berth. I suppose I could still do so if I really wanted to, but our deck came out so nicely that I hate the thought of cutting into it to modify it now--and really, it isn't that necessary... just would have been cool. As it stands, another future project is to make some kind of lightweight shelf or hammock that sits directly under the forward hatch so I can start stowing a few items in there within easy reach, without having to lower them all the way down inside that voluminous storage space.

[wkisting]

Bob (sitearch), do you have any pics of the interior? I'd love to see how it looks on the inside.

[Jim Stumpf]

Wes,

I am curious as to why you opted for a solid dodger instead of the fabric that most of the builders have used? I am not questioning your decision I was just wondering what swayed your choice.

Looks good by the way and I think your idea to install some windows is prudent. A thought about your mounting: I would be concerned about a bungee set up due to chaffing between the dodger and the deck, you may want some sort of gasket and mechanical fastener, maybe a clamp like they use for pick up truck caps.  

Thanks,

Jim

[wkisting]

Hi Jim,

I had settled on a soft folding dodger, but I would need to have someone sew a custom top for me and that adds up quickly in cost. So, since I still have a fair bit of scrap plywood and epoxy left around, I thought I would try a hard dodger first (free except for my labor) to see about sizing and functionality. Another attractive option is that I can use the hard dodger to fit to a canvas extension tent for sleeping aboard. The hard dodger in the front is more rigid and will buck the wind better, as well as allow mounting of a dome light, while the rest of the cockpit can be covered over with canvas supported by the mizzen mast. Should be a nice sleeping setup when I start camping aboard with my wife and little girl.

For the mount, I'm planning to glue the dodger down to a foot / bottom plate that is form-fitted to the cockpit coaming and deck curvature, so I think that will prevent sliding around because the whole dodger will essentially lock into place around the coaming. As long as I add a good rubber lining on the bottom, I don't think it will chafe or scar the deck. The bungees I have in mind will be heavy duty (5/16" or 3/8" diameter) and should provide enough downforce that it will hold securely. But I'll report back once I know better. As I'm envisioning it, I think it should work. (I hope!)

[Jim Stumpf]

I knew you had a plan  :grin:

[wkisting]

Here's an updated pic. You can see the strip of 1/4" plywood and diagonal reinforcements I added to stiffen the center of the roof and the roof-to-sides joint. I also cut a plywood base to fit snugly around the cockpit coaming and deck, then glued it onto the bottom. Now the whole dodger is much stiffer and hugs the coaming very snugly with little or no wiggle room. Should be very secure. I think it's up to about 20 lbs., but maybe less (hard to guess since it's an awkward thing to hold). I'm still deciding whether or not to add windows, since that will involve more labor and maintenance. Once I settle that issue, I'll seal the wood and paint the interior white, but finish the exterior bright (varnish) to match the deck.

The top of Bella's head is about where the top of my shoulder is when I sit up on the seats. Hard to tell from the picture angle, but that is also even with the roofline, so one just has to duck his or head down to huddle in the shelter. Or a full sized adult can sit up on a pad on the floor with plenty of headroom to spare.

[wkisting]

Okay... nearly finished with the dodger now. It came out very well. Should look nice when I varnish the exterior. I'm planning to paint the interior white, but I may leave the underside of the ceiling bright/varnished to give a touch of warmth to the interior also. Still have to devise a mounting system, but I think the bungee plan is going to work since it hugs the boat so nicely already.

[hokeyhydro]

Beautiful work. On the stern pic I did notice an "attachment" that appears to be a mount for an (EEK!) internal combustion device. You might be flogged or keelhauled for that

[Jim Stumpf]

Hey Wes,

Looks great. Any thoughts on how you would have addressed the dodger had you gone ahead during the original construction? I saw your comment on changing the fore peak lay out.. do you think you would have run the coaming to the forward bulkhead and done away with the over hanging deck? Do you find that you use the fore peak storage while under way or is it just a catch all for shore gear (camping ect.)

By the way as a fellow Stevenson Projects builder (Vacationer) I wanted to let you know that I followed your Pocket Cruiser build and honeymoon trip and it is great fun to see the beautiful family that you have started. I have two daughters the eldest doesn't care for the boating/camping scene (very much like my wife) but my 16 year old is my most faithful boating, camping and building companion, she stared hanging out in the shop at 4 and can not get enough. I am enjoying it while I still can because I am sure that there will come that ultimate teenage distraction. Best wishes to you and your family.

[wkisting]

Hi Jim, thanks for you comments. I love being a dad. I've been doing all these upgrades to the boat in the hopes that my little girl will take to boat camping the way it sounds your daughter did. I'm adopting the same philosophy that I did to get my wife started: make it as comfortable and accommodating as possible!

About design alterations, Graham's design is so superb that it would be a shame to fool with it. However, as I mentioned, there is cavernous storage space forward of the front bulkhead. On our boat, the only thing up there is the mainmast and the two sealed PVC tubes that accommodate the long oar handles so they can hang alongside the centerboard. We don't stow anything there because it is so deep and you really have to lean down through the hatch to reach the bottom. So...

Theoretically, if I were starting over, I would be tempted to install another bulkhead about 2 feet forward of the existing one. Then I would cut off approximately the top two-thirds of vertical height of the original front bulkhead (leaving the bottom third to reinforce the vee hull shape, plus about 4" along either side of the top as ribs against the hull). I would then install a flat floor running from the new forward bulkhead (the one up near the main mast) back across the top of the halved bulkhead, back to the cockpit seating area. Overhead, I would create a raised deck that is about 4" higher until it reaches the cockpit, at which point I would have it curve down to meet the original lines. I would leave the original cockpit size, including the decked over portion (which would be raised with the rest of the forward deck in that area). If I'm visualizing all this correctly, it would result in a boat that still has superb all-around visibility and an open-cockpit feel, but would have considerable space in the forward area to slide up underneath for sleeping or for stowing gear. It wouldn't offer much more than room to lay down or sit up on one's elbows (probably not sitting head room), but it would be very cozy for sleeping (would need a ventilzation fan to ensure adequate air flow) and could be sealed off back at the cockpit to still keep out water (for the safety of reserve buoyancy) while underway. Also, most importantly to me, it would not obstruct much of the view, unlike a full cabin.

Really, I haven't thought through the details because I'm so pleased with the boat as is. I just get these ideas when I see an unutilized space, and also I tend to start thinking about building warm enclosed spaces when the weather turns cold, as it has been in Georgia. In practice, I have always been happier with a totally open boat (I wouldn't even have built a dodger if not for the need to shield our little girl from the very hot sun this coming summer). The mod I was describing would probably add unnecessary weight and complexity to create a sleeping compartment that might only get used once in a blue moon. Probably not worth the trouble and potential downsides. For a very well-considered mod (if you desire a full cabin), I'd look at Dawn Patrol, which is thoughtfully adapted for such use.

On a more realistic note, I will eventually build a container or cargo net that fits directly below the forward hatch cover so that we can stow items inside, right near the hatch lid, rather than having them deep down inside where they are too difficult to reach. As for shelter, I think the dodger I've assembled is pretty close to an ideal compromise since it is so easily removed when it is not wanted.

[Hirilonde]

I think the bungee attachment idea is a good one. This makes it such that the dodger need have no permanent impact on the daysailer the boat really is. You might want to add a foam rubber gasket to the bottom edge of the dodger where it meets the deck. Between the foam and the cockpit combing you should have a good seal. It would also protect against scuffing up the deck.

Good luck with your daughter coming to like sailing. Be prepared as she becomes more mobile that she may go through a period where a boat hinders her need to move about. This period where the need to explore is great, and sea legs don't exist yet, can be a critical period in he deciding if she likes the idea of boats.

[sitearch]

I will try to get you a picture of the interior. Sorry I have been out of town.

[wkisting]

Bob, no worries... I'd just like to see the interior. No hurry.

Dave, I had the same thought... I found some "Super Firm Sponge Tape" which is for heavy-duty weatherproof weatherstripping applications. It's a long roll of adhesive foam about 1-1/4" wide and 3/16" thick, so I'm planning to coat the bottom of the dodger with it. Should make a nice cushioned base.

The dodger interior is primered now. A few more hours of drying, a little surface sanding, and I'll be able to finish paint it tonight. Varnishing the exterior will have to wait until the weather turns warm again. But it's very close to finished now. I found some nice stainless hooks from McMaster-Carr that should work for the bungee hold-down idea.

[ChrisObee]

I found some nice stainless hooks from McMaster-Carr that should work for the bungee hold-down idea.

I'd think that the stainless hooks used by kayakers to lash bundles to the deck of thier boats or to keep hatches closed would server well in this instance.

I must confess that I did not like the hard dodger until it became evident that it is removable. I hope your baby loves the boat. Mine is off to college soon. Where do the years slip by...

[wkisting]

I must confess that I did not like the hard dodger until it became evident that it is removable.

Oh, yes... I definitely wanted something removable, not permanent. I enjoy the CS's open-boat feel too much to alter it permanently. That's one reason we made the dodger as small as we could (while still functional): so we can easily stow it inside our tow vehicle if we get out to the lake and decide we don't want it on the boat. My hope is that even when it is in place, it won't feel like much of an obstruction to our view. It looks larger in the pictures than it does in person. It's much lower than a typical cabin top would be.