Sealing the Bailer

[Rod Thompson]

On the home stretch with CS 17 #144.  The "Super Max" Andersen Bailer came with two rubber caskets, one thicker than the other.  Is  a gasket to be used with the sealing compound/goo or is just the sealant enough?

[PeterP]

Rod, I did not use a gasket with my bailer. I remember worrying that the gasket was not thick enough to accommodate the curvature of the hull. You certainly don't want to warp the bailer to get a good seal on the flange and then find out the thing is leaking through the body. I mortised mine into the plywood and did a good couple coats of epoxy. Then dry fit the thing, drill the holes and apply generous coat of sealant. Put some bolts in -finger tight -to hold it in place while the sealant cures. Torque them up when it is dry. When considering what sealant to use think that you may need to take the bailer out to work on it next time you leave the thing open when launching and it catches on the trailer. Good luck PeterP

[Hirilonde]

Put some bolts in -finger tight -to hold it in place while the sealant cures. Torque them up when it is dry.

I have heard a lot of discussion on this technique.  Should you turn the bolt at all during the tightening phase you will break the seal of the goop to the bolt.  This prospect bothers me enough that I choose to do all my tightening during the bedding phase.  I go for tight, but not squashed, if that makes any sense, so as not to starve the gap of the goop nor leave the bolts loose.  If screws are the fastener (not that they would be for the bailer) then this technique is definitely flawed.  Be careful if you choose to do this.  All benefit is negated if the bolts turn.

When considering what sealant to use think that you may need to take the bailer out to work on it next time you leave the thing open when launching and it catches on the trailer.

I think every piece of hardware on every boat should be considered temporary in installation.  At some point it will need replacing, servicing or at least re-bedding.  I cringe every time I see or hear about someone bedding hardware with 5200.

[SUKIE]

uh oh - I read you post about 3 hours too late Dave. I just finished installing an Anderson bailer and guess what I used for bedding? You got it - 5200.   

Anyway, now that it's in, I need some advise. The instructions were very limited, only saying that the stuff will be tack free in 48 hours, totally cured in 5 days. Do you think that means I shouldn't get it wet for 5 days?

Ouch.

Sukie

[PAR]

Drape a very damp towel over the bailer so it will saturate the air with moisture. This will speed up the cure. Naturally, you'll want to avoid having the towel touch the wet goo.

[Ken_Potts]

  Hey Sukie,

  Don't worry - I bedded mine in 5200 also (couldn't find the softer stuff that day).  I recently had to repair the bailer when I tried to roll the boat off the trailer with the bailer open.  I initially tried to remove the whole bailer but it's in there pretty solidly now, so I found that I could remove just the moving parts of the bailer with a little doing and I was able to fix it.

  In order to remove just the business end of the bailer I spread the rod that locks the bailer apart where it goes into the plastic bushing.  Once that rod is removed, the bailer falls out the bottom of the boat.

  I'm not sure if I waited the full 5 days before hitting the water.  If I had to guess, I would say I probably did the installation on a Sunday after sailing and then sailed again the following Saturday...

[SUKIE]

Thanks Ken, it's always good to know that I'm not the only bonehead out there!

Now, my new mantra: "don't forget to close the bailer, don't forget to close the bailer. . ."

Sukie

[Rod Thompson]

Got it.  "Don't forget to close the bailer"  I believe that even our respected designer has made that mistake.

[Ken_Potts]

"Don't forget to close the bailer.  Don't forget to close the...  Oh look - my sailing buddy just showed up!  Now what was I thinking?  Nevermind - Off the trailer ye go!" is how I bent mine 

[John Turpin]

"Don't forget to close the bailer.  Don't forget to close the...  Oh look - my sailing buddy just showed up!  Now what was I thinking?  Nevermind - Off the trailer ye go!" is how I bent mine 

You know, this would be a great place for one of those "Remove Before Flight" ribbons.  When the bailer is open on the trailer, a pink or orange ribbon is attached to it--just to catch one's attention.  Close the bailer; ribbon gets stowed until next time.

[paul_stewart]

After two years of using the Andersen Bailer  (model 564136 / 50026) in our CS20,  the bailer does not want to stay down in the deployed position.  

For example, during the 100mile WaterTribe 2009 NC Challenge,  we had to keep one foot on the bailer all the way up Core Sound to keep the bailer working as we pounded close-hauled through big short chop.  

The bailer does not leak (bedded in 4200 with no rubber gasket) and it sucks the water out just fine  --as long as it is held down.   As far as I know, it not bent.

Best I can tell, the parts in the mechanism that provided the friction necessary to prevent it from popping up are worn out.  Grit/sand has occasionally infiltrated into it and surely must have worked like sandpaper when we moved it up and down.   (Will definitely try to avoid that in the future!)

I certainly don't want to carry around a brick to hold it down, so the choices are to either repair or replace it.

However, it is such a simple design with so few moving parts, it is not at all clear to me that it can be repaired.  

Any advice on the possibility of repair?

--Paul

[Tom Lathrop]

Paul,

Having used Andersen (and Elvstrom before that) bailers for over 40 years, I have never had that problem.  Had several other problems related to damage done by the crew though.  The bailer relies on the internal gasket to offer enough friction to hold the bailer in whatever position you put it as well as seal the edges.  I find it odd that the bailer won't stay down but does not leak.  Is it possible that the sides are bent inward just a bit toward the top?  All the foot traffic might cause that.

[paul_stewart]

Tom,

Your experience and advice are highly valued and greatly appreciated.  Thanks a million!  

It certainly is possible that the sides might be bent inward just a bit "toward the top". If that diagnosis is correct, then I think repair is possible.  There would be nothing lost in attempting a repair if the alternative is to replace it anyway.  

Even though it is located under the thwart, I'm sure it has seen lots of abuse from the crew.  But the bailer definitely does not leak.  Dry as a bone when closed.  

LATER...

On my lunch break I investigated your diagnosis and I believe you were exactly right.  The Bailer looks fine and I was not able to see, measure, or detect that the sides of valve box had been "bent inward a bit toward the top."  However, the bailer is such a simple and elegant design that the tolerances seem to be very small and any such defect hard to see.   I did detect that the bail (the wire part that flips over) seemed to be ever so slightly bent in a way that might contribute to the defect you suggested.  

The diagnosis you suggested makes sense, so I went ahead with the appropriate repair for that problem.  With the bailer in the closed position I expanded some outward pressure on the insides of the valve box as gently and carefully as possible.  That appears to have solved the problem.  Now with the bailer in the open position (extended down into the water) there appears to be much more friction holding it in place.   I also removed the bail,  corrected its shape slightly, and then reinstalled it.

I will have to put it in the water and go sailing to verify that the repair is good and I haven't created some other problems or leaks.  My guess is, it's good to go.  Success!

Thanks again for your insight, Tom.  

--Paul  

[Joe Anderson]

What does the open bailer strike when off loading the boat?

Would it be possible to set up the trailer so it was bailer friendly?

[Peter HK]

[What does the open bailer strike when off loading the boat?

Would it be possible to set up the trailer so it was bailer friendly?

/quote]

I'm with you Joe... eliminate any trailer issue with the bailer. That's what I've done.

Unfortunately there are still rocks etc on the shore that could do some damage so it's still better to remember to close it beforehand...don't ask how I know.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Tom Lathrop]

The most serious problem I had with an Andersen bailer resulted from launching from the trailer with the bailer down.   The reason is that a transverse support bed is often the best for some boats and the bailer hit that.  I didn't think anyone else was dumb enough or forgetful enough to do that.

Keel rollers are another main culprit for damaging bailers.

[SUKIE]

OK - The 5200 cured in only 3 days so I had to give it a try yesterday. No leaks (thank you thankyou), but unfortunately there wasn't enough wind to get me up to speed to try it out. I've decided to tie a small line from the crankdown trailer strap to the bailer, meaning that the line must be untied in order to take off the strap, thereby making me pay attention to the bailer (as in, close it).

I hope I'm not on this forum anytime soon to tell you my system didn't work!

Sukie