Outboard: long or short shaft

[Brent]

Every year about this time I consider adding a motor to my CS20.  Up to this point I have ended up with sails and sweeps and mostly get along fine.  But there are a few time when a motor would be oh so nice.  It is really a shame to put a motor on such a fine sailing boat, but...

So I consider it again this year.  I am thinking of a Nissan 3.5 four stroke.  Seems like plently of motor.  I definitely want a motor that can cruise for hours, cause if it were not for long distance situations I would just use the sweeps when the wind is down.

I was pondering a short shaft motor on a spring loaded mount versus a long shaft on a more stationary mount.  I dont want the motor to drag in the water when not in use.  What have other tried?  Post some pictures of your motor mount arrangement, and discuss fine points.  Thanks.

[Oyster]

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=5980.msg50561#msg50561

first off check out this thread for some small motor talk. If you need some help associated with a motor listed, let me know. Small motors are hard to come by as I dealt with small engine weights and sizes with my little runabout in 12 foot.

In the mean time, we sailed today, all day to some changing winds, from lite and variable to almost 18 knots. What a refreshing time on the water. We have sailed every single month in the last 12 months, but are awaiting fishing season again. We are down to about three packs of freshly frozen fish, but still have shrimp to finish. Work it into your schedule for a spring trip with the family!!

[Terry Dunn]

I have a 5hp 4 stroke tohatsu long shaft (20") on my CS 20. Way more motor than needed.  I went for more HP because I was concerned about high altitude  (9000') performance. I don't have the back deck so I mount the motor on the transom. A short shaft might put the motor a bit low for resonable access. Perhaps someone with a boat configured like yours will respond.

[Ken_Potts]

I just slipped the camera in my jacket pocket so I won't have an excuse not to take pictures tomorrow when I'm sailing.  I've got a long shaft 2hp motor that is mounted on a board that bolts to the transom.  I'll share pictures and thoughts tomorrow - There are definite good points and bad points to the way I set things up.

[Doug Cameron]

At the Everglades Challenge I was hearing rave reviews of the Torquedo electric motors.  Users were impressed with the range and power compared to other electric motors.  And, they are more in keeping with a wooden sailboat's karma.  They are, however expensive.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I have a braket on mine that swings down.  Because of the rocker to the hull, my short shaft would cavitate unless I was sitting on the back deck.  I must admit that I set the braket up per the instructions...like for a planing hull and didnt take into account the hull rocker.  I think a long shaft is best though.  If you go to the front of the boat it will not starve for water.  I got a 4 horse Yamaha 4 stroke and I think it is the ideal motor for the CS20.  It pushes me at about 6mph @ 3/4 throttle.  Its great when the wind dies and you have river current.  I can actually come home!  I still steer the boat with the tiller until you get too shallow or for tight manouvering while docking.  Keep that centerboard down at least a bit.  She responds a lot better and doesnt get pushed around in the wind as much.

[Howard]

On my "plastic" Montgomery, which weights about 1,500 pounds, I once used a 52# thrust Motorguide transom mount trolling motor while my gas engine was in the shop. I could get about 3.5 knots out of it. My guess is you would do much better and with a fully charge group 27 battery, probably a range of over 5 miles. The gas engine, btw, is a 4 HP Johnson Sailmaster 2 stroke, which pushes the boat to about 4 to 4.5 knots at 3/4 throttle. Mentioned for comparison of HP and needs.

The only problem I had with the trolling motor was one day trying to buck 20 plus knots of direct headwind coming into the marina and the battery gave out.

For a gas engine, the long shaft 4 stroke Honda 2 hp would be something I'd look at. You have to be careful how you lay them down, as the crankcase oil can cause problems. But otherwise, a great little air cooled motor that is light in weight and has an integral built in fuel tank. In all, probably half the weight of the trolling motor and battery and with a gallon of gas, twice the range.

[Ken_Potts]

  Here are the pictures.  I've got the motor mounted on a board that bolts to the transom.  When I don't want the motor around I don't need the board and I just have a couple of holes in the transom.  The holes are blind - They don't penetrate into the watertight aft compartment.  In order to mount the motor above the deck like this I needed a long shaft.  If I built a shallow well as some other folks have done I would have been able to use a short shaft.

  The good points of this setup are:  I can remove the motor mount and have a relatively clean transom; It's a fairly simple setup that can be retrofitted onto an existing boat;  I lock the steering and use the tiller to keep me from having to sit right next to the noise; The Honda 2hp motor is limited more by the prop than by the motor - I've motored into 20 knot winds (gusting much higher) and when the wind doesn't blow at all the motor will run 10 hours on a gallon of gas (four tanks); The motor weighs 28 lbs.

  The bad points of this setup are: The motor is high enough when not being used that it interferes with the mizzen sheet (not really a big deal in practice);  If I move to the front portion of the cockpit or up on the foredeck the prop comes far enough out of the water to cavitate; I don't have enough power to get up on plane (I think it's more the prop's fault than the motor's but I haven't found an aftermarket prop that will fit this motor).

  If I had it to do again I'd make the same decisions except I might move the motor a few more inches from the centerline of the boat.

[Brent]

Thanks Ken,  That is what I wanted to see. 

As I ponder further I am leaning toward the shart shaft motor with a mount that puts the motor further aft and lower.  Ideally high enough to keep the motor from dragging in the water when tilted.  I have considered making my own mount, but am leaning more towards purchasing a spring mounted unit to raise the motor up when tilted.

[Ken_Potts]

Keep us updated on your solution.  This is something lots of people have pondered.  Even though I consider my setup workable I'm still probably going to modify it a bit (after I finish the rub rails and the mizzen staysail and the oars and the cockpit tent and...) 

[wkisting]

Ken, what kind of speed can you get out of the 2hp Honda? Is it powerful enough to move you around well, or does it ever feel underpowered? I've been considering that motor for my CS20.

Also, is it unusually noisy compared to other outboards? I've heard mixed things about it.

[Charlie Jones]

I can move our 25 foot sloop with a 2.2 HP merc. She is probably 7000 pounds loaded displacement.

Does take a few minutes to get her moving though ;D

NOT our normal engine though. Normally we power her with an 8 HP Yamaha 4 stroke, running at high idle.

[jaxsailr]

Hi Brent,

The Florida Bay Peep Hen I sail has a cut down transom for the short shaft motors and does not seem to be a issue from what I hear from other owners.  Here in the salt water the brackets can erode away down here.  Whats the transom height on the 20?

I have a Honda 2 long shaft, clutch model and it works well for be since I day sail mostly.  On longer trips a water cooled engine would be nicer.  The 2 has moved the Peep Hen and the Seaward Fox I had pretty well.  On the Fox i also had a 5hp and it certainly had more thrust then the 2.  The Tohatsu/Nissan 3.5 looks to be a nice engine.  And is 10lbs lighter then the 5.  Suzuki has a 2.5 weighing just 30 pounds.  May be another option.

Fair winds,

Niels

[Brent]

Niels,

I was pondering this "cut the transom down a little" option.  I think it might preserve the lines of the boat versus the bracket - but as I have the covered deck lazarette some modification would be required.

I come up with 20" from top of deck to low point of the hull - so a long shaft motor hung at deck level would work.  But again it might be possible to hang a short shaft motor a little lower and result in less above deck intrusion. Some modification required...

So cut the transom down to about 14" to get good submersion.  Cut out a section of the rear deck and install appropriate reinforcement to the transom.  Then box in the motor well to provide good drainage etc.  I havent run the dimension yet but the motor would end up partially below deck level in a little well - with hopefully good air flow into the air intake.  Hopefully there would be room for the motor to swing as reverse in the little outboards involves spinning the motor around.

[Gordy Hill]

Ok guys, see if I can 'splane this.

This rather clever idea of mine would work really well on a Belhaven or Princess. I think it'd work on a CS 20 as well.

First, picture a huge hole in your transom on the port side that would be about 6" lower than what would be nessary for a motor mount. Then picture a little gun carrage about a foot or so square that the motor would clamp to. The gun carrage would have little wheels that would run in garage door-like tracks. You tip up the motor and when it's horizontal you just roll it into the boat and close the lid (which just happens to be the seat.)

Of course you'd box in the gun carrage area and make it self-bailing.

You could even have a little slide-in transom door to close the thing off and nobody would know you even have an engine aboard.

If I've expained this well enough maybe Gary can draw it up for us.

[Ken_Potts]

  Wes - I've never felt underpowered with the 2.  I usually use it when there's no wind at all and I move around at faster-than-kayak speed at 1/4 throttle.

  I once used the motor to get upwind when the wind was really blowing (too much for me to sail) and don't think I was quite at full throttle.

  If I had the choice to make again I'd get the same motor (long or short shaft).

  Gordy - I like the gun carriage idea.  007ish.  You could also use one of those motors that looks like a weed whacker with a prop on the end.  You could mount the motor under a seat like an offset inboard and use a surface piercing prop - When you want to motor just put the prop on the bare shaft that protrudes through the transom...

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Brent,

With your mizzen sheet system (and now mine borrowed from you) you wont have any problems with fouling of the sheet for your mizzen with the motor.  I like my braket and 4 horse Yamaha.  No fuss with cutting the transom.  Just 4 holes for the braket.  I did add some 1" thick backing wood for the bracket bolts.  I glued in a piece that was big enough to span the whole braket bolt pattern.  I trailer with my motor hung from the bracket.  No problems.  I think it weighs like 45#.  A bit of a beast, but sure is nice to have the reserve power when sailing in windless areas with tidal exchange.  You take on a 5 knot current and the 2hp may not be adequate?  Depends on where you sail.  I do know people who have the 2 horse honda's and love them.  But I have reverse gear and they dont.