Painting

[capt jake]

OK, I feel like whining a bit.

Well I guess I still am not doing it right, or it's the product that I am using.

I have nearly a gallon on Ben Moore M22 (Alkyd Urethane Enamel, its an oil base) left from my first attempt at roll and tip on the Weekender. I am painting a very small dinghy (Mini Paw). I thinned it, added a bit of Penetrol, rolled it with an ultra fine foam roller and tipped it off.

At first I was using a foam brush for tipping and got fair results. Next coat I used my Ox Hair brush; this left 'nice' brush marks in the paint (as happened on the previous boat). Another coat with the foam has evened it out a bit but not to my satisfaction.

I will wet sand it smooth tommorow (again) and try it again. This time thinnning it a bit more with Penetrol.

No wonder I had somebody come to the shop and spray my Weekender! :roll: I need to buy one and start spraying.......

[capt jake]

Thing is, I have this gallon of M22! And besides, I told the CFO that this project wouldn't cost anything (to speak of). Shhhh........ ;)

The bad part is, all of the brightwork turned out fantastic! I can do a bright finish, but if I have to paint it, forget it.

[Frank Hagan]

Even the cheap $100 HVLP sprayers at Lowes and Home Depot do a very good job. The cheap ones still have a lot of air moving around, so you have to be good about cleaning up the shop if you don't have a spray booth.

[capt jake]

I have been debating the sprayer, but then somebody will tell me to get a good finish I will ned to buy a $500 Binks gun. Can't afford that!

I was looking at a gun at Harbor Frieght (AKA 'Tool Palace') and they have one with a remote pot (gun detached from the paint pot). I think this would be ideal for getting into some of those tight spots.

I have bought some pretty decent items there, but I have also bought total junk. Hmmmm????

[Charlie Jones]

Personally I HATE Brightsides. I have several quarts, unopened, that I don't know what to do with- tried to give them away and the folks didn't want them

Sure am not gonna use the stuff on a boat again.

[capt jake]

So Charlie, so you spray or brush? BTW, I think you hurt Ray's feelings. LOL

[Barry Pyeatt]

Maybe Ray would pay the shipping from Charlie? :idea:

You can use just about any reasonably good spray gun with the Benjamin Moore and get a nice even job. As long as the base is good. I still get a better finish if I prime first though.

[Stump]

No, you guys got it all wrong. capt jake MUST sand....over and over and over :shock: :shock: :wink:

[Charlie Jones]

Jake- I use spray equipment.

On the brightsides. I know lots of people who are happy with it and use it successfully. Not me. In MY experience, the whites cover well, but in any of the other colors I found that the coverage just sucked. I've tried rolling, roll and tip and just brushing. Just can't get a coverage that I'm satisfied with without spraying. The other problem is that it'll drive you absolutely nuts with curtains and runs. I've put a coat on, stood back and admired it, cleaned the gun and come back to find sags. PLus I just don't find it to be very durable. I've done four boats using Brightsides and I just switched to spraying 2 part poly on every thing.

In addition, for MY USE you understand, I can get a gallon of 2 part poly from my wholesaler for about a third more than a quart of Brightsides. A gallon of white 2 part poly runs me $33 including hardener so I stick with that. Colors are more and don't even ASK about yellows!!!! Costs are double for those. But the longevity makes even that worthwhile. To me anyway.

Now for a home builder I understand that they might not have the equipment to spray, so something else would be better. For me, I'll stick with 2 parts.

On another tack, I WOULD love to find a paint to put on dinghies that will hold up. That is one failing of 2 parts- they don't like to be underwater full time. Nor do several other paints I've tried, like Pettit's EasyPoxy. Paint a dink and drop it in the water (towed) for a prolonged cruise, like 4 or 5 weeks, and the stuff underwater starts to peel off. That I dunno.

[capt jake]

Hmmm, Told the wife it wouldn't cost anything, Don't want to spend $33.00 on a qt of paint, But willing to spend at least $100.00 on an HVLP?

Hmm, Gotta ponder that one.

Suspect the wife would look more kindly on the paint than hte spray gun myself.

Perishable supplies are one thing. But when they start to accumulate in the shop, well that's another. A decent tool that can be used again, for other projects is an investment. She and I both understand that. She may bark now, but given the next project, she will understand (my wire feed and other welding equipment came this way). ;)

I think I will go try that sprayer, if it doesn't work out I will take it back.

Edited to add:

Another question though; Anybody know about Japan Drier? I was reading about thinning varnish 30% with Japan drier and using an air brush to applu varnish. In the article they claim to ba able to apply 5 coats in one day at 70 degrees in relatively high humidity (New England states). Question is; do you think I can use it with the M22 with satisfactory results? Ben Moore states to 'not' thin the product for spraying; though with the specs of the sprayer orifice they recommend I don't see how it can pass through the gun (.040).

[Joe Sundstrom]

I have received a sampler kit of their various epoxies and am really impressed with the SilverTip EZ Fillet (epoxy and wood flour, premixed, almost no smell!).

They have paint, too, but it is not recommended for "continuous below waterline use."

Joe

http://www.systemthree.com/p_wr_lpu.asp

[capt jake]

They have paint, too.

I have heard both ends of the spectrum on system3 paint. It is a water based polyurethane. People either love it or totally hate it. This makes me hesitant also. Plus, due to the fact that it is water based, the relative humidity really will play into what type of results you obtain. Too bad s they are located in the town I work for. Nice people though.

[Arnie Eaton]

I have heard on this forum that Glidden Porch and Floor Poly is very good for boats. Home Depot has it for 18 bucks a gal. I have one of the HVLP guns from Harbour Freight and used it on a dink that I made a few years back. Paint looks good after many fishing trips. I also have a small Campbell Hausfeld HVLP setup with gun, pump, and hose which I have yet to use. Plan on using it for the Vacationer soon with the Glidden.

[John Turpin]

I'm about to start painting my Two Paw, using an el cheapo Lowes porch paint @ $20/gallon. I'm hoping for miraculous results, but I'm also hoping for other unlikely things as well.

I'm rolling and tipping and hoping for results that look decent from about 10' away.

[capt jake]

I just bought an HVLP sprayer. I am off to the shop to set it up and do some test spraying. Wish me luck! ;)

[kydocfrog]

And a tip of the hat and a big thank you to John Turpin... :wink: ...I was starting to worry about bringing Charlie Girl II out in public. Here I sit, well along with several gallons of oil base primer that old standby Rustoleum (in three three colors plus a spot yellow trim) applied with the same techniques as developed by the Renaissance Masters...I tell you I was getting nervous.

Actually, I am getting results that seem just fine with my galvanized cleats and minimum brightwork. The drips and runs give a nice prismatic effect when the light hits them right. I am a bit upset at the huge blister I had to cut out over a spot of poorly cured epoxy I didn't get sanded out correctly. Gotta try that vinegar thing.

DocA; perfecter of the dog-food finish: Dribbles and Drips.

[capt jake]

Gotta try that vinegar thing.

Only works on uncured epoxy though.

First coat of paint was WAY too thick. Wiped it off and applied another. A little orange peel but at least it is uniform!

Mr Turpin, I saw your guitar on the WBF. VERY NICE!! TIm Diebert here makes guitars also; for a living.

Here is mine that I made.

[Charlie Jones]

Ray- I use a Scott- Double cannisters. I'm not real sure I'd trust in in an enclosed space, but I almost always spray outdoors with a decent breeze. When I DO have to spray inside I have a 4 foot fan evac'ing overspray, plus several others blowing in so the air changes quickly. Since I only have to shoot a boat about once a year I don't worry too over much about it. If I was doing it once a week or so I'd get a forced air system for sure.

[John Turpin]

Beautiful guitar, Jake. Really gorgeous.

I thought my two-year guitar building project took a ridiculously long time until I started building boats. My perspective is changing.

[capt jake]

OK, I feel that success is at hand! 1 1/2 hours to wet sand this AM (got all of the brush marks out), 3 coats of paint in as many hours. Slight bit of orange peel on the bottom, but the bottom isn't supposed to be 'Holy Mackeral' shiny anyway! Right Frank?

Took a bit of playing with to get the settings right, but it sure beats a roller and brush!

Thinned the paint with Naptha as I was told anything else would kick it off too fast causing it to be brittle.

Now I didn't have a spray booth this go around as I wasn't planning on spraying until late in the game. Next time though!! I have overspray everywhere. :shock: Fortunately the shop is just that; a shop. It is not attached to the house, finally!