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ricknriver

Spindrift 12 vs Amanda

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Like Chick we're looking to downsize.  I'm looking at the Spindrift 12 and Amanda as cartopper utilities .  Guessing the Amanda was designed to be easier/quicker to build but are there significant handling or performance characteristics/differences under sail, oars, & small OB that designer/builders have become aware of?  Key desires are light weight, easy to rig and reef, and nice easy and comfortable sailing for this senior couple as we travel and camp around the country. Thanks,  Rick

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Hi Rick,

 

I am building an Amanda right now; all the basic wood,  glass and epoxy work is done;  now sanding and priming and sanding and painting...and lots more sanding.  

 

There were several reasons I chose the Amanda:  I could pick up the kit at the Wooden Boat Show in Mystic and say hi to Graham, ease of build at the initial stage, and because I have a CS17 we built two years ago, I liked the idea of a different bow shape.   The bow sections are a lot like the Windmill which is a design I always admired.  Amanda does have a lovely body too, it's not just the bow  :)

 

Like you I am downsizing and simplifying:  The Amanda will replace a heavy, 700 lb. fiberglass lapstrake skiff with a 15 hp Honda which i am selling.  It will be used as a Presto 30 tender with a 2.3 honda, a rowboat and most importantly a sailing tender for exploring harbors and anchorages.  After talking with Graham and Alan, I think the performance difference between the Spindrift and Amanda would not be great and maybe more affected by choice of rig.  I will stay with the lug design on the Amanda so as to keep the spars simple and the ability to stow the sailing rig in the boat. Being a Sunfish sailor, the lower aspect rig is appealling for stability and with minimal performance loss.

 

I'll let you know how much she weighs when we're done.  I can still heft a 135 lb. Sunfish on the roof racks with my better half but that is probably the limit.  I expect the Amanda to be in that range fitted out with hardware.  I might be able to do a hull only weight later this week.

 

Anyone interested in a stout 15' Lapstrake Dory Skiff let me know before it goes on craigslist.  It is similar to an Amesbury or the Holby Bristol skiff with a 2001 Honda 15 hp 4 stroke electric start engine in very good condition with high thrust prop.  I can email pictures.  Will go on craigslist for asking price of $3500.  10% discount to Forum members.  Located in RI, will deliver within 100 mi. radius.  4-o-1 301 0357

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I thought I posted earlier, but must have lost it.

 

I'll anxiously be reading the great advice from others on this one. I was planning a Spindrift 12 with a sloop rig, but now I wonder....

 

I will be trailering, so car-topping is not important. No motor (I'll use Turtler for that.) Sailing and a bit of rowing only. (to get out of ramps up at the end of mountain "coves".) I do want to change to a centerboard rather than dagger board. Maybe off-set like the Mark 3's. Hey---don't yell at me y'all, I just don't like dagger boards. If ya really wanna know why, you'll just have to ask!

 

About the sloop rig. I know there is more to rig, but we have mostly light air up here. I like a sloop on the Spindrift, but on an Amanda, maybe an oversized sprit (like an Optimist pram) with reef points. Guess I'd better check Graham on this one.

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Chick, I wonder if the kick-up centerboard design shown on some Bolger/Payson 11'6" cartopper plans, just behind the mast, might work on Amanda/Spindrift12?. Maybe even make it weighted and removable by having the pivot pin drop down into a slot in the front of the trunk, and lock it down with a long "u" bracket inserted into the slot from the top of the trunk. Removability would save weight for cartopping. Just wild thoughts. Rick

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 Rick, I need to be sure that the board when down is in the same location as the dagger board would be to keep the CLR in the the same location. My main concern is foot room with the c/b trunk in the center of the boat. That's why I'm wondering about moving it to the side. I don't know if the side benches are parallel with the centerline, or if they are high enough for the trunk to fit under. I suppose that I could straighten the seats, and make a narrower board to solve those problems.

 

Cool idea of dropping the board in from the top to save car-topping weight. I'll not be car-topping, but I do like a weighted board rather than a down-haul. Something to think about.

 

I'd like to build from a kit if Graham offers one. I've e-mailed about it, but haven't heard back yet. I want to pick it up at the mess-about. The plan is to start building in the spring. Turtler will be done in another week or so, and then I can work on all of the "honey-dos" that are piling up!

 

Of course, with Amanda, there will be all of these same questions about the c/b. At least I know that there is a kit. At this point, I'm still leaning toward the Spindrift. Decisions-decisions...

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I don't think anyone likes a dagger board, from a sailing point of view anyway.  I know I don't.  That being said, I don't know that the sacrifices necessary to include a centerboard trunk in a very small boat are worth it.  Damned because its all related!  If you took the side view drawing of either boat, added a pivot to the daggerboard, and projected its swing up into the hull you could visualize the impact on your space.  Maybe even fill in the impact on a top view as well.  Is the result something you could live with?

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I can visualize where the trunk would be. But I don't have drawings of profile or plan view of either boat. I would need to measure the foot room for the trunk in the center. I don't think that my big feet would fit. The question is, will it work against or under the side bench?

 

Actually, we stole Rick's thread on comparing the Spindrift to Amanda.

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A leeboard would keep the cockpit completely clear, but would add to the outside breadth.  They seem to be quite popular on the Michalak designs.  I'm sure they have their own benefits and drawbacks.

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Hi Chick,

 

I will take some photos this weekend for you so you can imagine the space a centerboard would take up in a Spindrift 12.

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Hi Chick,

 

I managed to take some photos for you this afternoon. As you can see from the photos there is not enough room to have a swinging centerboard and if you were to move the centerboard next to the seat the centerboard width is higher than the seat, so then you would need to either raise the seat height or make the board narrower. It all seems too difficult to bother with. This is my first boat with a dagger board, which at first I wasn't too keen on but I have probably only hit the bottom no more than 5 times in 18 months or so of sailing and most of them were in the first month. Once you get used to it, it's fine.

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Alex, it appears that your efforts have proven that the sacrifices of building in a centerboard and trunk would be quite significant.  As desirable as centerboards are, I would not use one here.

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I have sailed Spindrifts and Amandas a lot since they were designed and I can't understand the angst over the dagger board. I have sailed them along the rocky shores on Maine and the shallow waters of Pamlico Sound and it's creeks and points in between. They will sail upwind decently with the board mostly up. If you rig the board as designed with the shock cord, it is easy to raise and lower and it will stay where you leave it. The boom clears the board when it is up. You only need some board down when going up wind.

 

I have short tacked along the shore staying out of most of the current with only half of the board down and won races without running aground. Of course I have run aground hard but it takes only a moment to raise the board and sail on. The trunk and board is tough enough for the odd screw up but as Alex has said, after you run aground a few times, you get it and learn to raise the board when the bottom depth is doubtful.

 

Why don't we just put in a center board? It would need to swing back into the cockpit and be in the way. It takes more work to build and it will be heavier. While the last items may not concern a lot of builders, these are small boats.

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You guys have convinced me. A dagger board it will be. 

 

Now, back to comparing the two boats. Graham, any thoughts? I like the looks of the Spindrift better. I don't like hiking out and with my back, I like to lean against a backrest (coaming, seatback, or...) so which would be better for a lazy sailor?

 

I talked to Carla (e-mail actually), and she said that the Spindrift as a sloop wasn't any faster in light air, so I guess I'll stick with the cat. Besides, they only have a kit for the cat---not enough call for the sloop. They don't have a sail for sail track, only a sleeve luff. How about reefing? And I like to be able to drop the sail in a blow, or rowing up a channel to the ramp when it's windy. Any thoughts on all of that?

 

As you can see, I've not been a small boat sailor since I was a teen. A LONG time ago. Then I didn't mind hiking out, capsizing occasionally, etc.

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Chick:

 

A while back, I had a "simple lug sail" built for my Spindrift, but to date, have not had a chance to use it. It is pretty much the same type as the lug rig used on Amanda. Was hoping for the ultra simple balanced lug, but mast gets stepped too far forward for that.

 

The reason I wanted the lug was pretty much as you say, for times when you want the ability to reef, plus raise and lower the sail easily while on the water. With the stock luff sleeve sail, you pretty much have to pull the entire stick and lay the rig down. Not always that easy to do when bobbing around on the water and especially if the wind is up.

 

Would be curious how well Amanda's lug sail would balance on one of the larger Spindrifts. Doubt it would win many races against stock boats with cat sails, but no doubt would still get a guy around and anchorage or small lake faster than rowing.

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I have been enjoying following threads at this site for years. I have plans for a Coresound 17 and Mandy/Amanda. Since I will be sailing alone a vaste majority of the time I have concluded that either a Spindrift 12 or Amanda is the best choice for me. I expect to start construction when I retire in the next year. I like the hull of the Spindrift and the rig of the Amanda. I had a Sailfish many years ago and really enjoyed the thrill of getting up on a plane; felt like I was going 100 mph although I'm sure it was not more than 10-12. I'm very interested in which boat performs better. When I talked to Graham he had not had a chance to sail one against the other. I also want the boat to be very easy to rig after pulling it out of the back of my pickup truck, and easy to reef out on the water. Ease of constuction is not a major factor; I'm more interested in getting the boat I will be most happy with in the end. Appreciate comments.

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Before very one gets on the, " you can't reef or lower the sail from the boat with a sleeve luff" thing. I cracked that a long time ago. I timed it on a video and it took 15 seconds to reef from the helm. I have posted a picture of a S12 sailing with  reef on this forum somewhere.

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I ordered a zippered sleeve sail when I built my 11N. while I haven't ever needed to reef it, it seems rather easy and I even put in the gear for jiffy reefing per plans. I'm pretty amazed at how stable the Spindrift is. I really wanted to put hiking straps in when building, but I've been out in some fun stuff and kept the sail flat and had her plaining plenty, sitting right on the floor leaning back hard. I still may eventually put straps in. I'm heading to the MASCF next week and I can't wait to sail around St. Michaels. If you see the Suzy J and me, say hello!

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