Finally got up on a plane!

[sscoville]

Yesterday I was out sailing my BRS 17 in 10-20 mph winds by myself.  I had intended to go for a relaxing sail, have a drink, etc.  Shortly after I left the dock I turned from a run to a broad reach and woosh, I was off!  I jibed and tacked around for a while and decided to head back to the dock for a respite and maybe to take one mast out.  I ended up going out again with a friend and the wind had picked up a bit more. 

 

The boat was difficult to for to sail, particularly the second go.  I had so much weather helm and when I would tack, I would inevitably stall before picking up speed again.  I would have to ease the main and then sheet it in.  It was gusty too.  I had the board only 2/3 down to reduce heeling.

 

Anyway, I found the boat unwieldly during the second sail.  Should I have reefed before going back out?  Is that what the boat was telling me?  It was not much fun fighting the boat constantly.  It is good to see that I can manage the boat in these winds, knowing to ease the main, hike, and turn up into the wind. 

 

I can't emphasize enough how superior I find the aluminum masts over my old solid spruce ones.  Also, my new rigging set up with swivel cam cleats.  My mizzen setup still needs tweaking as the sheet does not run very freely as it is.

[Hirilonde]

  On 7/5/2013 at 2:03 PM, sscoville said:

  I had the board only 2/3 down to reduce heeling.

Huh?  Sailing to weather you want the board all the way down regardless of wind speed.  This is where at least some of your weather helm came from.

[Jim Stumpf]

I find that in heavy wind the mizzen will tell you right away if you are over sheeted. Try slacking the mizzen a bit and see if that helps.

 

Jim

[Peter HK]

  Quote

 

 I had so much weather helm

I always find my CS 17 to have a light helm and usually easing the mizzen would fix this. By way of lateral thinking, was the rudder all the way down or did the rudder downhaul stretch? That can increase force on the tiller a lot even if the rudder has slipped aft only a little.

Cheers

Peter HK

[sscoville]

Interesting thought about my rudder.  I didn't notice if it was less than completely down.  Raising the board a bit will reduce heeling force.  One problem I'm having with the new running rigging set up is that the mizzen is poorly shaped when close hauled.  I need to take a look with it up in the yard.  One place I deviated from the plans on the masts was that I used closet rod at the top which is about 1/8 smaller diameter than the plans call for.  And, it's poplar, not fir.  It flexes quite a bit.  This is all the lumber yard had.  I think when I haul the mizzen in close, the top flexes, causing sail shape to suffer.  Does that sound logical?  I am also unsure whether I've been setting the forward end of my sprit too high with the new masts.  When I was sailing yesterday with so much weather helm, the mizzen would luff and I would try and sheet it in some more.  From the suggestions above about easing the mizzen, I'm wondering if this is all related.  More thoughts, suggestions?

[Mike Vacanti]

  On 7/6/2013 at 2:12 AM, sscoville said:

Interesting thought about my rudder.  I didn't notice if it was less than completely down.  Raising the board a bit will reduce heeling force.  One problem I'm having with the new running rigging set up is that the mizzen is poorly shaped when close hauled.  I need to take a look with it up in the yard.  One place I deviated from the plans on the masts was that I used closet rod at the top which is about 1/8 smaller diameter than the plans call for.  And, it's poplar, not fir.  It flexes quite a bit.  This is all the lumber yard had.  I think when I haul the mizzen in close, the top flexes, causing sail shape to suffer.  Does that sound logical?  I am also unsure whether I've been setting the forward end of my sprit too high with the new masts.  When I was sailing yesterday with so much weather helm, the mizzen would luff and I would try and sheet it in some more.  From the suggestions above about easing the mizzen, I'm wondering if this is all related.  More thoughts, suggestions?

How does raising the centerboard reduce heeling?

[sscoville]

Give it a try and you'll see.  It's counterintuitive to me.  Search Google or maybe someone here can explain it.

[Designer]

Sam is correct. Growing up racing skiffs as a boy, our standard upwind tactic in strong winds was to depower the sails by tightening the cunningham and outhaul to flatten the sails and move the draft forward, sheet the sails further out, raise the daggerboard about 25%, foot off and sail her flat.

 

The question is, why does raising the board help? The heeling force is the distance from the center of effort to the center of lateral resistance times the power generated by the sails. If we raise the board we are shortening the distance (heeling arm) thereby reducing the heeling force.

 

What about the loss of board area? If we foot off, the boat goes a lot faster and the reduced board can generate as much lift as the full board sailing slower.

[Hirilonde]

When a boat has a hard time getting closer than 50º TWA it would have to go incredibly faster to justify bearing off going to weather.  Have you ever done polars for any of your boats Graham?

[PAR]

A poorly setting mizzen in strong winds will give you fits close hauled and tacking.

[Howard]

All else being equal, I would have thought that raising the pivoting centerboard would move the center of lateral resistance aft, resulting in LEE helm, not weather helm? Even more so if the mizzen was going flat and luffing in the gusts? At that point, the mizzen stopped helping at all and was just along for the ride. Most of the drive would have been coming from the main? Depending on how the main was sheeted in relation to the course steered, a gust should shift the apparent wind forward, requiring the helmsman to head up or else heel way over. And it seems to me the drag of the stalled main would heel it way over vs. scooting forward  and picking up speed? Anyway, an undesirable situation all around.

 

My guess is the best tactics in those conditions would be to reef. Among other things, it would have dropped the head of the mizzen back to "solid footing" to prevent the bending (or at least it would have bent at the same rate as the main). The drive of the sails would have equaled out, not to mention less of it and with a lower center of effort?  (But I would still be looking to replace the bendy top section of the mizzen).

 

Unless I'm racing and willing to take chances, I tend to reef early and often. I find I'm happier, and the boat is happier on her feet and moving vs. on her ear and wallowing. On my existing sloop, in winds like those you describe, while all reefed down, I've sailed past much larger boats. I was flat and moving and they were constantly rounding up and wallowing. Even when racing, if the wind is up, I reef down. Under those conditions, she is always faster (and safer).

 

My guess is that long term, you would be happier with even two reefs vs. the one mast in the middle. With both masts, you can always heave to. From what I can tell, hove to is the ultimate safety device for these rigs when it starts getting ugly.

[sscoville]

I think PAR and Howard are both right.  I think my mizzen was just along for the ride.  I set the sails up with the boat trailered and took a look at some things.  For one, I had my sprits set 1' too high on the masts according to the plans.  The main had slipped down about 8" from the top of the mast (although this could have happened after I went sailing).  This is the second time I've noticed the main had done this and all I can figure is the way I tied it to the mast allowed it to do that.  Howard, my sails are laced on and I don't have reef points, so I currently have only 1 option for reefing.  I re-laced the main and lowered the sprits on both.  Now, I think I just need to find a better way to attach the turning block for the mizzen sheet where it comes down the mast. 

 

Also Howard, I believe that raising the board does reduce weather helm / increase lee helm.  A sailing buddy suggested this to me one day saying he read to do this online to reduce heeing.  I thought it would increase heeling. When I did it, the heeling force became much lighter and slower and I felt the weather helm ease.  I then noticed that we were able to keep our course much better as we weren't having to slow down to round up all the time.  This came up on this board when I capsized my boat for the first time.  Apparently, many on here are not aware of this tactic.

 

Here in Beaufort, I'm having to learn to deal with the significant current as well.  I rammed my boat into some others and the dock the other day because I completely misjudged the force of the current. 

[Designer]

Hi Dave,

 

It was good to see you at Mystic.

 

We were not broad reaching, just full and by. There is a tendency when overpowered to just pinch up which can be pretty inefficient as the foils start to stall and the boat sailed as I described will often end up higher than the one pinching. A good helmsman, beating in heavy conditions is constantly bringing her up and falling off as and keeping the boat moving fast and high as the gusts and shifts come and go. I was also assuming that the sails were in reasonable tune rather than what Sam described in a later post. 

 

A lot of boats get increased weather helm as the wind increases or when heeling, swinging the board aft a little can ease that. Improperly trimmed sails on a cat ketch will have a far bigger effect. As Peter said earlier, these boats have a light helm, if the helm was as heavy as Sam first said, there is also a good chance that rudder was not all of the way down worsening the effect.

[Tom Lathrop]

A partially raised rudder can produce more pull on the tiller than anything else.  Its not really weather helm but it sure feels like it and it often is mistaken for weather helm.  While you have to ease the main in a gust, the mizzen being sheeted in too tight is also a weather helm culprit.  For certain the CS boats can be adjusted to produce the helm feel you want.