Engine well for CS17

[Gordy Hill]

According to Mercury Marine website the 4-stroke motors can be stored on it's side observing the "This side up" decal.

Even if you didn't store the motor in a locker, most people would carry extra fuel...in a locker. I think it would be possible to properly vent a locker.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Absolutely you can properly vent a locker.  Just make sure you do so.

I will stick to oars for myself though.

And I am not too proud to accept a tow if need be.

[wkisting]

Scott, not sure if you saw this, but since the question of motors comes up so often, I posted this thread about the motor performance (3.5 hp Merc) on our CS 20:  http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=7415.0

The Merc 4-strokes can definitely be stored on their side, as they have a molded foot on one side of the cowl (opposite the throttle arm) which is for this purpose. That is the only storage position the instruction manual recommends (besides upright) for our 3.5 hp.

Wes

[Dale Niemann]

My Honda 2HP 4 stroke on 'Lively' can be stored on its side but it must be the specified side with the little skid pads.

Dale

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Just to be clear,  The ability for a motor to be stored on it's side does not mean you can do so in an enclosed compartment without providing ventilation.

Any time you store gasoline in an enclosed compartment, the compartment needs to be ventilated.

This is Federal LAW.  CFR (ode of Federal Regulations)  The means in which the compartment are ventilated are prescribed by federal law.  Whether it is an outboard motor stored in there, or a spare tank of fuel.

[hokeyhydro]

Just to be clear,  The ability for a motor to be stored on it's side does not mean you can do so in an enclosed compartment without providing ventilation.

Any time you store gasoline in an enclosed compartment, the compartment needs to be ventilated.

This is Federal LAW.  CFR (ode of Federal Regulations)  The means in which the compartment are ventilated are prescribed by federal law.  Whether it is an outboard motor stored in there, or a spare tank of fuel.

This is true. One of my boats came from the manufacturer with a snapped tight vinyl curtain over a rear compartment that was just the right size for a 6 gal portable outboard fuel tank which I used on long hauls to supplement the 20 gal on board tank.  Solution:  I removed the curtain. Tank in plain view, well ventilated, USCG inspection was good to go.

[Gordy Hill]

Dale,

How does "Lively" perfume on 2 hp?

Are you happy with it or would you go with a larger motor next time?

[wkisting]

A good storage location for a small/light outboard is under the forward seat that braces the forward edge of the CB case. You can slide a small motor up under that seat pretty far, the weight will then be located forward and centered (which is desirable), and that space is ventilated by default since it is not enclosed (if built to the plan specs). Of course, due to the deadrise in that area of the hull, you may want to make a small tapered shelf or block support to keep the outboard from rolling around or shifting when the boat heels, but that's no big deal.

We almost always keep our outboard on the motor bracket, tilted up when sailing. But the few times we wanted to bring it inboard, we put it under the forward seat as described and it worked great. The lower unit/prop sticks out into the forward leg space a bit, but not enough to be a problem. To keep the motor from shifting while underway, we just stuffed a balled up towel under the motor head and it never budged no matter how much the boat heeled under sail.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Dale,

How does "Lively" perfume on 2 hp?

I imagine it perfumes like any other stinkpot..Eua de unburned hydrocarbon...

[Steve Day]

Ray,

Glad to see the old "wit" returning. I haven't heard that type of attempt at humor in quite a while. All we need now is to have Konrad chime in and we will be "complete" once again.

Steve

[Dale Niemann]

Gordy,

I am completely satisfied with the Honda 2HP 4 cycle engine.  It provides plenty of power with the tides, winds and waves we have around here.

I can't remember if I every told you this before.  I chose the CS 17 because of the performance I observed on the WCTSS trip to Bradenton when you had your Sawdust there.  A bad storm came up and you had moved the sail to the third mast hole and were sailing around with great joy.  Right then and there I decided to build my CS 17 'Lively'.

dale

[Scott Dufour]

Since I never see this on other boats, there's probably a good reason why I shouldn't do it- but I'll ask y'all anyway.

How'z about I get the Honda BF2 Long Shaft (2HP, 27 lbs), and intend to use it infrequently, keep it stored up under the forward seat.  Make sense so far.

But what about, when I need to use it, just mounting it on the gunnel near the oarlock?  It'll be easy to mount and start right there, as well as take back down.  But like I said, I never see it on other boats.  How come?

[PeterP]

Scott, funny - I was out sailing a couple of weeks ago and guy put in with a home made sharpie with a side mount engine bracket. I am still trying to figure out which was the worse of the two in terms of quality. He backs the boat into water off the trailer with the little two stroke down. We hear this crunching noise and you can guess what happened. He got the motor back but his wife just totally lost it. Seems she was the main back up propulsion unit and in very frequent use at that as the capt. was  bit erratic with his sailing. At his suggestion that they fall back on oars she told him she knew just the place for his oars and would not need a GPS to find it either. Last I saw them as we were pulling away from the ramp ( under sail) they were packing up to go home. PeterP

[wkisting]

Scott,

I suspect a side-mount bracket could work, but typically side mount brackets are only found on small craft like a canoe. With a boat the width of the CS17, you will have the thrust pretty far off center, which means that your maneuvering will be compromised in one direction (but will turn extra sharp in the other) and you will lose efficiency for foward thrust (i.e., slower speed, higher gas consumption, less ability to hold a course in headwinds/waves). These effects might be small enough to be acceptable, though... probably the only way to know is to try it out. My gut tells me that the motor will be far enough off-centered that it will work, but will not offer ideal control for maneuvering. You will also have to be careful to give the mount enough clearance that the prop could never "steer" into the hull and cause damage.

Just my speculation...

Wes

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Just back in from Small Reach Regatta in Frenchman's Bay.

3 CoreSounds there,  My 20, a 17 and a 15.

No motors on any of them.

about 40 miles sailed over three days.

Yesterday morning we sailed out of Lamoine Beach State park with a blistering windspeed of 2 to 2.25 MPH with occasional rare gusts of 2.5 MPH lasting for milliseconds.

Sailing out against a flooding tide too with a tidal fetch of about 12 feet.

Yeah, we resorted toa  little bit of one oar rowing with sails up to get out of the harbor, but once round the point, even though I was near the end of the fleet,  (skinny little boats double team rowed out)  I set the Mizzen staysail flying it single handed and cut up through the fleet in good order averaging 3.5 knt boat speed on a 60-70 degree point off the nose of the wind.

Rounded Haddock point and bore off and as Mainsail became starved by staysail dropped staysail, gybed the Main and rehoisted staysail running wing on wing with main and again accelerated to 3.5 knts.

Motors are for ..........  (fill in the blank)

Sukie was first in the harbor day two  and I was fourth in.  (Cboard trunk had gotten some kelp on it)

The coreSounds now have a [penalty at all Small Reach Regattas where we are to take an extra leg given our speed and pointing ability.

Day 3 leaving Bean Island, all three CS's were able to beat directly out past haddock Point without needing to tack upwind to gain seaway.

Better than 2/3 of fleet had to tack to get out of that stretch.

I learned a fair amount about using the staysail  this trip and look forward to getting a bit more time with it.

If any of you notice that you can trim down your snotter to the point that you have no more adjustment, you might want to make new longer sprits.

The sprits on my 20 originally id that and Graham advised me to lengthen them to be able to flatten sail more for better pointing.

I made new sprits 10 inches longer factoring it would be easier to shorten them if needed.  I might shorten them about 4 inches.

In any event I can now point about 10 degrees higher than I could pre alteration.

I don't know if it  is all sprit though as I also bought and raised new sails with extra roach and big long battens...

Sukie however was pointing every bit as close as I was with her luff sleeve sails and I think battens in those as well.

Sukie also has previously lengthened her sprits as well.

Motors are vastly over rated.... IMHO

[sitearch]

I built my core sound with an engine well. I love it and my boat performs very well both sailing and motoring.

There are some advantages to mounting the motor more toward the weight toward the center of the boat and directly in line with the rudder. It is harder to rip it off in big waves and actually provides some ballast in these light boats not to mention that my motor never cavitates like motors mounted on the transom do when heeling or in heavy waves. I extended the boat 2 feet past the transom with air tanks to help with float the motor. I tilt the motor up when I am sailing and down when I need to motor. I made the tiller so that it can swivel over the motor with it is up or down. I find that the rudder is very responsive with the thrust from the motor directly over the rudder. I have reached speeds of 6 knots in fair winds even with the motor down according to my GPS.

I truly do appreciate all of the sailing purity that is exhibited in this forum by these good folks but in Alaska we need motors on all of our boats. The tide here is one of the largest in the world because the water is not hospitable we are always as extra risk, so a motor is not optional. 

[Ray Frechette Jr]

I truly do appreciate all of the sailing purity that is exhibited in this forum by these good folks but in Alaska we need motors on all of our boats. The tide here is one of the largest in the world because the water is not hospitable we are always as extra risk, so a motor is not optional.  [attachment=1]

Frenchman's Bay near Bar Harbor see tidal swings of 12 ft which is more than most people ever deal with and we had no problems with it.

Of course if you are up the sound feeding into Anchorage I could certainly appreciate  your desire for a motor in those waters with Tidal Fetch of 30 feet!!  And since it is a long narrow channel as well, I suspect currents get substantial there as well. 

Frenchmans is mostly open water so not a huge current.  My normal salt water sailing ds in Portland Harbor which also sees 12 foot swings but with a lot of islands in  the bay acting as soup strainers and on a full moon you can easily see 3 knt plus curren tbetwen some of the islands.

While I would not care to be reduced to rowing against such I can usually find a better route in less constrained waters to get wehre I want to go,  And worse case scenario I can drop and anchor for 3-4 hrs and pass when conditions improve...

But if you are in that Anchorage Sound,  I will pass Absolution on you for your stinkpottin sins.  I won't consider you a Panty waist for motoring there at all.

We are at the mouth of Bay of Fundy which accounts for our tides here.  I have been in Fundy once and the tidal extremes are amazing there.

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Just to be clear here.  Wes still does not have absolution.  I still have latent suspicions he depends on a motor due to being  Panty waist...

Heck,  Wes could sail out of Halls harbor in Fundy and I probably would not give him a pass.  Just too much fun to rib him on his desire to have a motor...

[wkisting]

Ha ha ha... I make no apologies for my motor. It rarely sees more than 15 minutes of use at a time, but in the hot Georgia summer it is a godsend when the wind dies and there's rowing to be done. I have some very fine oars for our boat, but I have no desire to use them at any point during July or August, when the heat index is regularly around 106 with suffocating humidity. No thank you...

Of course, the main reason we wanted a motor was for the extra freedom of sailing wherever the wind blows us, without having to budget time for the return trip. I can't always kill a whole day at the lake, so having a motor along lets me forget about time schedules and wind-worries and just have fun without having to stay near the vicinity of the ramp. When it's time to go in, or when the boat ramp entrance is about to close for the night, I can always fire up the motor and make a straight, quick line back to the dock if necessary. The "iron wind" makes it a lot more feasible to go to the lake on days when I have to be somewhere else later in the day for another obligation, so its worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned. 

[Ray Frechette Jr]

Geesh Wes,  I have been waiting all day for your response....

So, whats a little heat and humidity?

You put a sweat band around your head,  bring along a gallon of water and a stick of Old Spice deodorant... It is all good.