Table Saw Vid, this guy's gonna retire early

[Konrad]

Pretty neat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHrmvQKevfI&eurl=http://www.beerorkid.com/index.php

[capt jake]

First time I have seen it demonstrated, but I have heard of this for a few years.  "A buzz or a tickle." ??  wow.

[Bruce Kershaw]

False security! 

I saw this demonstrated at a trade show in Atlanta, 6 or 7 years ago.

And notice... the guy uses a hot dog.  Not his finger.

It's fairly easy to keep your hands out of the blade. Most table saw accidents I've seen involve kick-backs.

Few saws in mill shops have the riving knife installed, because you're frequently doing dado and rabbet cuts.

If I thought that accidents were inevitable, I'd have gotten out of the business years ago, but I have seen my share of carnage...

To me, the table saw is the most respect worthy piece of equipment in the shop.

Thanks... I say... Thanks for giving me cold chills first thing in the morning, son.  ;D 

[PAR]

I've seen the designer actually use his finger. Not a drop of blood. It works and it destroys itself in the process, but a hand is pretty valuable. This upgrade isn't cheap either.

[Fintan Murphy]

I thought most accidents happen with hand tools.

People have great respect for a table saw, or chop saw etc.  But will pick up a chisel and use it with abandon.

What's more dangerous than a sharp chisel?  A blunt one.

But I agree, anything that removes the risk of accidents has to be a good thing.

[Hirilonde]

False security! 

If security is what people are looking for its a big mistake.  Nothing can replace caution.  I would hope it would be considered like any safety feature, as something to improve the odds.  As a matter of fact, insurance companies call it risk management now instead of safety.  Not that being politically correct is needed, but the new phrase does put it into perspective.

Most table saw accidents I've seen involve kick-backs.

That may be true, but I don't think kick back is the major cause of finger losing accidents.  Repetitive cutting most likely is.  This is when people get careless.  Even those with the strongest will concerning safe practices can get distracted or lose focus.

Ray's post has just come up while responding.  As a non-teaching but certified Vocational Carpentry teacher with a hair raising semester on the job, I am glad to see them used in school shops.  The immortal high school student deserves a second chance while learning.  Although using a radial arm saw for dados makes no sense to me.  But then I find little to no use for them, at least now with compound sliding mitre saws.

[Tom Lathrop]

Ray,

I'm not sure whether this device is the belt or the suspenders.  I think that the best shop safety device is a healthy respect for the dangers involved in working with any tool.  The table saw being the most likely to damage you in the average shop.  I gave my radial arm saw away years ago.

To me, the most safe tablesaw is one with plenty of power, a very sharp blade, alignment well adjusted, use of featherboards, push sticks and riving knifes when needed and last but not least, a careful but not intimidated operator.

When you get tired, get out of the shop or do something less dangerous, like sanding.

[bdann]

There's a show on the Discovery Channel called "Time Warp", they do a series of experiments or demonstrations and capture it all in super slow motion.  On one of the recent episodes they demonstrated this saw and the designer did use his finger in one of the demonstrations...it was almost hard to watch.  Not even a nick on his finger, pretty neat. 

[Bruce Kershaw]

I thought most accidents happen with hand tools.

Don't ask me how I know that to be true!  :

But I agree, anything that removes the risk of accidents has to be a good thing.

...Or at least, lessens the risk.

If security is what people are looking for its a big mistake.  Nothing can replace caution.  I would hope it would be considered like any safety feature, as something to improve the odds.

[i'm not sure whether this device is the belt or the suspenders.  I think that the best shop safety device is a healthy respect for the dangers involved in working with any tool.  The table saw being the most likely to damage you in the average shop.

Amen, to both.

That may be true, but I don't think kick back is the major cause of finger losing accidents.

No. But it can be life threatening. (As in, abdominal penetration.) And the riving knife will prevent it, but in a commercial shop, time is money, etc...

I gave my radial arm saw away years ago.

We use a big one for rough cross cutting rough lumber... that's it

It is also an excellent tool to have at any commercial shop with employees.  The cost of the tool and maintaining it pales in comparison to emergency room costs.

Tell that to my boss.

I don't know... Will his insurance company lower his rates enough to compensate for the cost, if he installs them?

Strikes me it is an excellent tool to have in a high school shop class......  I would never run my finger in on purpose...

Hmmm... When I was in high school, I think at least one in five kids would have. (show off-tough guys)

Sorry if I rant. Too many years of seeing people get hurt.

If I had to label the most common cause, it would be, lying to the boss about your experience and training. A sure way to end up hurting yourself or someone else.

[capt jake]

There's a show on the Discovery Channel called "Time Warp", they do a series of experiments or demonstrations and capture it all in super slow motion.  On one of the recent episodes they demonstrated this saw and the designer did use his finger in one of the demonstrations...it was almost hard to watch.  Not even a nick on his finger, pretty neat. 

Yup, that was this video!   I always wondered how this device worked.  Pretty impressive.  Take that from one who know the sharp end of the saw blade intimately. ;)

[Bruce Kershaw]

 

I am willing to bet within 20 yrs tops this will be OSHA mandated safety equipment in commercial shops.

No doubt.

They'll be on the saws, and in the small to medium size shops, they'll be disconected or bypassed because...

When it fires off both the blade and the cartridge are sacrificed. And you do have to inspect the cartridge from time to time to ensure sawdust isn't building up in it as that can trigger it if allowed to get too high.  And when sawing green wood either the wet kind or the Pressure treated type there is a switch to deactivate the sensor for the cut as you can get accidental triggers from that as well.

My biggest issue with this thing is... If it can trigger when it's not supposed to, who's to say it won't fail to trigger when it's needed? Also, if it can be deactivated for certain cuts, does it

[Charlie Jones]

   

Over the years, we've gone from hand-cranks and stamped graduations with little metal pointers, to computer controlled, power adjustments with digital readouts. In the real world of poor maintenance and dust, this stuff fails all the time. It's like power windows on a car. When they fail, you get wet.  I hate "progress". Give me an old fashion window crank... or even a pair of vice-grips and a shaft to clamp them on.

;D My circa 1946 Delta Unisaw keeps right on ticking when you turn the cranks. You still need to respect the tool, but I've (so far) still got all my digits. Several have mentioned the reasons- don't use it tired, or when you've had one or two. And ALWAYS respect it. I use pushsticks and finger boards religiously - might take a few extra moments to set up, but sure makes it safer.

[Craig]

Charlie as a man with 9 and 7/8th fingers I agree.  I now treat them all like sudden death.  When using any power saw all it takes is a moments inattention to make you wish you had never turned it on.  Cranks and push sticks are good enough for me.  The beer is for after the job is done, not while.

[Fintan Murphy]

Guy goes into the emergency room with his two stumps of hands

"What happened?" said the attending

" I cut off all my fingers in a table saw" Says the guy

"You know, with modern surgical techniques we can sew them back on, good as new, why didn't you bring them in with you?" said the attending.

"And how was I going to pick them up?"  exclaims the guy

[Frank Hagan]

All safety devices have the inherent problem of possibly making people complacent, but there have been several commercial shops who have installed these.  I remember reading on SawmillCreek a while back that one guy running a shop said it saved one accident (guy fell forward).  They replaced all their saws with them after that.

Required safety regulations go into effect here in the near future, and riving knives will be required on all table saws, matching at least part of the requirement in Europe.  Dado blades are probably not possible unless the riving knife comes off.  Dado blades are illegal in Europe for that reason.

A chisel may be the most dangerous tool in terms of how many cuts, but you have to be pretty dedicated to cut off three fingers with a chisel! 

[Bruce Kershaw]

"And how was I going to pick them up?"

Leave it to the Irishman...  ;D ;D ;D

You know... That coin you sent me years ago is going to go under the mast of this little boat I'm building.

I haven't forgotten about it... Just where I put it.  :

Everybody be safe. Christmas is coming. 

[Ken_Potts]

Many years (a couple of decades) ago I was running a panel saw for a cabinet shop (making panels for the "Ms Pac Man" arcade game, among others).  The saw had a horizontal box-beam across it that served double duty as a clamp and a guard.  When the "Go" button was pressed the beam would descend with a lot of force to hold the work-piece in place and the blade would run down the panel inside a slot in the bottom face of the beam.  During operation the blade was never exposed (nice and safe).  It was a two-man saw - One man (me) setting up the cuts and feeding the stock and a tail-man removing the cut pieces and stacking them on a pallet.  One night I was forced to work with a particular guy that nobody liked to work with because he didn't speak English.  Other than that he seemed to be a very nice guy so I wasn't too worried about working with him because the job was NOT complicated.  So somewhere around 11pm (we were on second shift) I was clearing some strips out from under the beam and Mauricio hit the "Go" button while BOTH of my forearms were under the beam.   As the beam was descending and I was frantically pulling my arms out from under it I noticed how bright and happy and red the "Stop" cable was and I realized that with both arms under the beam there was no way I would be able to pull the cable in time to save my hands (one hand, fine - Two hands, Eeek!).

I managed to get my arms out in time and I also managed to launch myself OVER the saw and onto Mauricio before the beam came back up.  Some co-workers pulled me off him before I managed to hurt him (I'm not really a fighter).  The guy never meant to harm me and fortunately I didn't manage to harm him.  He just wanted to see what the green button did - You should have seen his face when I landed on him.    He felt terrible about what he'd almost done.

I don't know if there's a point here but that big happy red "Stop" cable always made me feel really safe until I realized that it wouldn't help me at all if BOTH my hands were in the saw and I couldn't pull the cable.

Then I would have been in the emergency room saying "and how was I s'posed ta pick 'em up ya @&^#$%!?!?" ;D

[Craig]

That would turn your hair gray Ken.  Damn!!!! :o

[Konrad]

I like pudding.

[Ken_Potts]

I like pudding too, but I prefer bacon.