CS17 #226

[Apteryx]

Ah, thanks.  I forgot the tape.

I guess also the proximity to the crease one direction, the stem the other direction, the joint is probably pretty well supported.

Thanks for your comments!

[Apteryx]

Ok, having survived the Tx200 I'm getting back to my CS17. 

The plans say it's best to add the braces and supports to the transom and bulkheads prior to installation.  I'm building the decked-transom variant.

The aft bulkhead appears to have a piece curved across the top edge made of 1x2.  Is that the only bulkhead brace/cleat/stringer I need to add?

Also, can the growth rings be oriented horizontally instead of vertically?  That would make it much easier to warp to fit the profile of the top edge of the bulkhead.

Thanks in advance - if Graham is going to be back next year I gotta get finished, and I gotta do it right!  ;D

[Ken_Potts]

  I think I cut that curved piece out of a wider board.  I don't remember bending it.

  Adding the board prior to installation keeps it straight when epoxying the bulkhead/transom to the hull.  I think you're correct that it's only the boards that run along the tops of the transom and bulkhead that are installed before the transom and bulkhead are installed.  but don't act on that advice until someone seconds me on it because I'm not positive.

[Apteryx]

Thanks, Ken, that makes sense cutting it out of a wider plank.  That's the way the foredeck beam is cut in the CS17 kit, I think that's the only dimensional lumber in the kit.

Which reminds me, I need to look at the foredeck beams - there may be a support on the fore edge of the forward bulkhead, too.  Plans aren't here right now, so that's research for this evening.

[Apteryx]

I think the forward deck beam, the notched bit of dimensional lumber provided with the kit, is glued to the top forward side of the forward bulkhead.  Does that sound correct?  Image IMGP0409.JPG on the CS17 picture CD seems to suggest that.

3-D soon!

[Charlie Jones]

Carl- here's two pics of the CS 17 forward deck framing First looking aft, then forward

[Apteryx]

Thanks, Charlie!

I think the included deck beam must be the one aft of the foreward bulkhead.

Hopefully tonight I'll get the 'wings' glued, then maybe tomorrow I can dive into stitching.  Progress!

[Ken_Potts]

I think the forward deck beam, the notched bit of dimensional lumber provided with the kit, is glued to the top forward side of the forward bulkhead.  Does that sound correct?

  Yes - That sounds correct and Charlie's pictures agree (though I haven't seen a kit I suspect the framing is largely the same...)

  If the notched beam you are talking about is significantly longer than the top of the bulkhead your most recent statement (not the quote) is probably correct.  To be sure a call to Graham or a comment from one of the lucky kit builders (Sukie?  Ray?) will clear things up.

[Apteryx]

Ok, getting geared up for the fun stuff, the part where the plywood first resembles either a boat or a planter.  ;D

I took two junk pieces of plywood and stitched and glued them into a vee, and I've got questions about making a fair fillet, bubbles under tape, and damage from pulling the stitches.  Here's what I did.

I put tape over about half the run, and for the most part I think it was OK.  Charlie would have torched it, my mom would have bronzed it, and I'm thinking it could be better but wasn't a disaster.

I wasn't quite able to get Charlie's mirror finish no-sand fillet, though.  Here's what it looked like without any tape.

I used rubbing alcohol on my glove but the surface of the thickened epoxy still had a case of acne.  Lots of little bumps.  Would it work better to paint a little unthick epoxy on the fillet before smoothing it with an alcohol-wetted finger?

There were also two places that seemed to have bubbles (see highlighted area).

Is that just air that got captured under the tape?

Lastly, two of the stitches seemed to damage the fillet as they came out (highlighted).

I used a pistol style soldering gun to warm the wire so I could pull it out.  It didn't take much heat to pull the wire free - maybe I should have heated it more?

Any comments appreciated!

The joint was stronger than I expected, by the way.  I put the vee on the floor, pointy side up, and stepped aboard.  There was flexing in the wood from my burrito-laden 260 pounds but the joint didn't fail.  With tape on the outside of the vee I think it would have felt very solid.

[Charlie Jones]

First- on the wire showing- take a flat screwdriver and push the wire down into the vee between the two boards.That lowers it so it doesn't print through. And yeah, you'll see a few places where the glass is sorta damaged after the wires are pulled. Doesn't seem to matter, since when you work over the outside, epoxy will run into the holes. You are, after all, leaving a hole in there.

Second- it looks to me like either you had the blend too thick, or the silica wasn't stirred in well enough. I very seldom use straight silica in fillets by the way, unless it's a REALLY high stress area. I normally use wood flour with just a touch of silica- enough to stop sagging. By the way- if you start out with the mix too thick, you wind up making it thicker as you work, scoop stuff up and remix it.

I run my fillets with either a piece of 1/8 plexi cut to the radius I want, or a plastic squeegee done the same. When you run the fillet, some will squeeze  out to each side and you'll see ( or should see) a tiny clear line between fillet and squeeze out.. I take a clean putty knife and scrape that up, putting it back into the can. Leaves a really nice clean edge that way.

Oh- and I don't bother to use the alcohol on fillets I'm glassing- only on those that are showing and have no glass. Yes, unthickened epoxy will smooth it, but don't go overboard- you don't want any more there than enough to wet out the glass. The weave should have a matte look when properly wet out, with no shiny spots

That's actually not a bad result for a first time though Carl- looks workable anyway.

[Apteryx]

Thanks, Charlie!

I'll get wood flour, and I did have it pretty thick - not quite peanut butter but thicker than mayo.

Somewhere I saw your story about showing a boat builder a quick fillet, explaining that boat building is within the reach of an amateur willing to take a little time.  Ben Franklin once said beer is proof God loves us, kind of a sacrilege if you ask me, but I'd say boat building is a better proof.  Dang, this is fun.  I've felt quite empowered after the first few steps I've taken.

A most recommendable hobby.  ;D

Many thanks for your comments.

[Bikermouse]

It's only sacrilege if you're talking about pale, watery American and Mexican beers.  Any beer through which you can read a newspaper isn't worthy of the appellation.

And your fillets look better than any of my efforts so far. 

[Apteryx]

But, but, most newspapers are best read through beer!  No, wait, that's with beer, not through beer...  ;D

Thanks for the kind words about the fillets - as Charlie suggested, the mix was pretty thick and I could have spent more time stirring.

His trick of rubbing alcohol on the glove did a lot of good.  Thinking back to how it worked I could have pushed the wide parts of the fillet over to the narrow parts and gotten straight edges.  It wouldn't be an issue with good plywood, but I was a little concerned about splinters.  Those pieces were pretty ragged quality.

[paul_stewart]

Waaaaaaait a minute...    preliminary practice on scrap lumber:  that's....  that's....  cheating! 

(Is that allowed?!)   

This could lead to actual perfection in boat building!   

[Apteryx]

My kids came home for a visit (as in for food, laundry services, food, heckle the old man, food, and, of course, a dinner out on the town).  While they were here I grabbed the opportunity and my 16 gauge wire - and my pile of plywood is starting to look like a BOAT!!  ;D  ;D  ;D

Here's her starboard bow.  the forward cradle has a 2x4 in place to keep the hull pieces from getting trapped into the slot that's eventually for the keel.

Right now she's loosely stitched.  I'm going to leave her like this overnight to start taking a set in the plywood to reduce the stress of folding the rest of the way up and tightening the stitches.  Also, I'm going to lay hot towels on the forward bottom panels to soften them a bit before drawing the seams tight.  The silly grin on my face wasn't staged, I was enjoying life!

Leaning against the wall in the far left is my temporary bulkhead, ready to go.

Here's the inside of the bow, not sure how I got so stinkin' much epoxy schmoozed around.  The gap shows how loose I've got the stitches to keep from applying excessive torque to the forward bottom panels until they are used to the idea.

Looking aft shows something that seemed to work quite well.  I built two scaffolds to help with flipping the boat, and to contain the 'wings' during this phase of construction.  Unfolding the boat to loose stitches involved only light pressures and absolutely no creaking, cracking or any sort of strain.  Each scaffold is two uprights topped with a 4x4 crosspiece.  If I were doing it again (and I may) I'd make the top beam a box beam of smaller wood to make them lighter.  Gussets (out of sight in this picture) make the structure fairly rigid and the legs are like upside down tees.  There is a foot piece to keep them stable.

The only thing is the scaffolds are a bit wide for a Core Sound 17.  Looking at various plans I see a Belhaven would probably be a better fit for those scaffolds.  Whatever was I thinking, sometimes I just don't know...  No, dear, we're not ever building another boat as far as I know, surely not, even though that Belhaven, well, a CS17 sure makes a good warmup project...  ;D

Many, many thanks to people like Charlie, Ray, the others who've helped here, and of course Graham and Carla.  Dang, am I ever stoked up!  Not sure when I had this much fun with a boat!

Ordered sails yesterday, too, my CS17 project is on a roll!!!

[Ken_Potts]

Woo hoo!  Keep rolling!  Unfolding and stitching is a really fun (but nerve wracking) thing.  Looking good.

[Bikermouse]

Mazel Tov!

Now stop grinning before your wife catches you being happy and you get in trouble.

[Designer]

Good work Carl. Get that bow tight before you pull the stern in while you still have some leverage.

[Travis Votaw]

Well done, Carl!  Looks like I'll be seeing nothing but spray when you pass me and Pilgrim on the next TX200 ;D

[Oyster]

Ok, getting geared up for the fun stuff, the part where the plywood first resembles either a boat or a planter.   ;D

I took two junk pieces of plywood and stitched and glued them into a vee, and I've got questions about making a fair fillet, bubbles under tape, and damage from pulling the stitches.  Here's what I did.

I put tape over about half the run, and for the most part I think it was OK.  Charlie would have torched it, my mom would have bronzed it, and I'm thinking it could be better but wasn't a disaster.

I wasn't quite able to get Charlie's mirror finish no-sand fillet, though.  Here's what it looked like without any tape.

I used rubbing alcohol on my glove but the surface of the thickened epoxy still had a case of acne.  Lots of little bumps.  Would it work better to paint a little unthick epoxy on the fillet before smoothing it with an alcohol-wetted finger?

There were also two places that seemed to have bubbles (see highlighted area).

Is that just air that got captured under the tape?

Lastly, two of the stitches seemed to damage the fillet as they came out (highlighted).

I used a pistol style soldering gun to warm the wire so I could pull it out.  It didn't take much heat to pull the wire free - maybe I should have heated it more?

Any comments appreciated!

The joint was stronger than I expected, by the way.  I put the vee on the floor, pointy side up, and stepped aboard.  There was flexing in the wood from my burrito-laden 260 pounds but the joint didn't fail.  With tape on the outside of the vee I think it would have felt very solid.

One of the biggest problems that I have witnessed in new builders and even with myself when I get in a hurry is that improper stirring of the mix takes place. These shots says that you may have two things taking place, too thick or in the case of one shot it looks like its too runny. If you get a too runny mix sometimes it could be in the improper stirring. If you are using a narrow container to mix, make sure that you pick the materials up from the botttom and clean your stirr stick off properly on the lip and pick that material up and push it back into the bottom of your container and continue to stir it. Cabosil especially will float on top of the blended resin.

When you begin to dip the mix out you get a mix on top thats a bit thicker on top than the mix thats on the bottom of your container making it a bit runny in some areas and lumpy in other areas of your fillets. This will make you frustrated in getting a clean curve. Charlie seems to subscribe to a smaller fillet since he is also using his finger to refine them too. This seems to differ also showing in the larger fillet in your shot that has a rig down the middle part.

I use rounded putty knifes which also allows a better fillet and keeps the extra glue to a minimum. You can get into corners too and work the glues. This time of year when its warmer, mix smaller batches and be patient as glue in the green stages are fine when adding to a seam and glassing over with your tape.