esmikell Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I am new to the group, hello everyone. I am pondering the different designs I have seen in rudders. Most go straight down from the transom; however, a few design have the rudder go out aft of the boat so that the rudder does not go below the draft of the hull. Is there a benefit to this design other than the shallow draft? Second, can some people suggest a good 12-14ft sailboat that is good in light airs. I plan to build it and enter a river race in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hagan Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Not sure about the rudder issue, but we do have some design folks here who should chime in. The B&B Spindrift (see this link for more) has won several races, although I think that was with the designer Graham Byrnes at the helm. Graham keeps winning races with his designs and I suspect he's a pretty good sailor! The Spindrift comes in a 12' version, but not larger, as far as I know. There are several people who own them in the B&B Yachts Forum here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Rudder plan form (profile) can take on many different configurations, often a difficult set compromises between; shoalness, effective steering, participation in lateral area, complication and drag inducing resistance. The most efficient rudder plan forms have a relatively tall aspect ratio (depth verses width), but these suffer from bottom strikes. A "kick-up" or other retracting feature can be employed to address this concern at the expense of complication, more drag and efficiency lose. The "barn door" style of rudders, which seem to extend aft rather then down are naturally shoal, but limited in efficiency and effectiveness in some conditions. Well heeled over, these types of rudders can loose their "bite" with resulting lose of steering control. This can also be true in rolling conditions or steep seas, where the slightly immersed rudder is repeatedly plunged and exposed, as the boat makes way. In the end, the designer will make a choice which set of difficulties they can live with most (a common theme in yacht design decisions). With clever engineering both styles can be effective, within the performance envelope they were intended to operate. There are a lot of performance 12' to 14' sailors available. I have two, a single man and a two man, both 14'. If you'd like to contact me by email, I'll send you some study plans. Graham has a number in this size range, as well as several other designers, some of which have links on this very site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Potts Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Welcome aboard! What river and what race? There is no right design, just the best compromise for the requirements... May in the headwaters of the Mississippi is different than May at the mouth of the Amazon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyster Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 In my opinionated opinion, in the size you speak about, the kickup seems to have the edge since that size boat is more of a semi protected water use. I am not sure that the more broad and shallow rudder is as pretty either for small hulls. SO I am not sure if comparing barndoor styles should enter into the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 He's a Florida boy Ken so I'll wager St Johns River and the Mug race! 8) Your best bet is to go with the rudder configuration specified by the designer. He or she has already optimized the rudder parameters for the hull in most cases. Some designs have room for improvement but normally the gain in efficiency is not worth expendature of time, materials, and effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxsailr Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 You may want to find a design with a Spinnaker. If the winds are southeast it will be a nice ride down river. A MX Ray kind of boat. Also a Hobie 17 would work also. In a long distance race a longer waterline would be nice. I would like to do the Mug Race also. But my Peep Hen would be to slow...LOL Maybe see if i can get a ride on a Farrier Tri would be the best for me. Nothing like doing teens on one of those babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxsailr Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Would the Core Sound 15 work for you? Hey Par, have you ever thought of starting a web page? Also how is your cold molded powerboat coming along. Sorry everyone did not mean to hijack. Niels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Maybe sometime this year I'll get a site up and running (which is what I thought last year). The molded boat is basically done, just needing some equipment fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esmikell Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Yes its the mug race, I don't have much time to build a boat and piece up some sails and work all day to pay bills before the race. I'll build anyway and push to make the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxsailr Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Actually the Storer Goat Island skiff looks good too and fast to build. Do the small boats the the same race or is it around the bouys? I have a Holder 12 i could bring out for a race. Niels Jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 I think it will be a reverse start again this year, with the slower boats off the line early and the fastest later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Jones Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 LOL- I've done three Mugs. Once in 1973 in a San Juan 21- 2nd in class, once as a ride along ( not racing) and once in 1981 in my Cross 35 trimaran- Boat was totally empty- didn't even have water tanks. We weren't officially entered- started after EVERYONE else had, then cranked it on-we blew off over 300 boats that day ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAR Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 I've been in it a few times and it is a fun start, if you have a fast boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esmikell Posted January 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thanks for all of the replies. The school I work for in Tampa takes two weeks for spring break which will help with time to build. I will stay away from barn door style rudders I can see how in a roll they will loose their bite in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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