Core Sound 20: Hull #103

[Gordy Hill]

I can only manage to post one pic per post.

[paul_stewart]

Dawn, are the bubbles above or below the water line?

Above the water line, they can be from not getting all of the waxy "blush" off the cured epoxy or the failure to let the epoxy cure enough ....

Below the waterline, it may have to do with the quality of barrier paint and the work of osmosis.  ....

Doug,

We have a few bubbles, perhaps 4,  above the waterline. The other bubbles are below the waterline.  There are about 100 bubbles with 1/8" diameter, about as many with diameters ranging down to a pin point, and perhaps a dozen in the 1/8" to 1/4" range.  In the three bubbles we dissected,  we found that the gas (no liquid) in the bubbles was above the epoxy layer and below both the primer and paint layers.  No separation between primer and paint.  Yes, osmosis could occur below the waterline but wouldn't that tend to separate the paint from the primer? 

My amateur guess is that the epoxy layer was not perfectly inert or was not perfectly cleaned.  I other words, I think the gas in the bubbles is residual solvent / blush / whatever and not water vapor. 

The hull was in the water for ~ 1 week: Saturday 7am to Saturday afternoon.  During the 3.5 days from Tampa Bay to Key Largo the water termperatures were reported to vary from about 70 degrees to 80 degrees.  Then the boat rested tied to a dock in (warmer?) shallow non-tidal water most the time during the other  3.5 days.  If I had checked the hull on arrival in Key Largo I'd know better when the bubbles appeared.

Prior to applying the System Three (S3) water reducible "Topcoat" paint the word from a S3 tech rep was that that paint would be fine for a trailered boat and that a bottom paint would only be needed if the hull was left in the water continuously for more than several weeks  -- two or three weeks should not be a problem.  Primer used:  water reducible S3 Silvertip Yacht Primer.

The bubbles are not fragile, being a composed of unified paint layers and primer layers.  The bubbles are very flat.  The bubbles are not uniformly distributed.  Most are on the port side, and few on the forward half of the hull.

I am considering repairing the bubbles one-at-time: that is sand down each bubble and then go forward with several steps of painting and sanding.

Comments?  Recommendations?  All suggestions would be appreciated!

 

   

[paul_stewart]

Hopefully Paul Stewart will chime in.  He recently bought a trailer for CS20 #103 here in NC ... just before the Everglades Challenge.

Wes, in regard to your post about trailers for your CS20...

   Our trailer arrived the day before we were scheduled to start our trip to the EC'08 starting line on Mullet Key in Tampa Bay. It turned out that the EC'08 was the first time our CS20, "Dawn Patrol", was in the water. 

   If I had known how long it would take to acquire a trailer I would have started looking for one the day the CS20 #103 plans arrived in the mail.  Initial plan was to find a cheap used trailer.  Easy!  But used trailer pickin's turned out to be very slim.  Better to buy a new one!  The state of online info and online shopping for new trailers is rediculously poor. (Don't they -want- to sell their trailers?)  In regard to knowing what we needed or would want,  I was clueless.   Read all old posts in the forums.  Eventually received some expert recommendations about features and brands.  So we aimed for a longer version of what turns out to be the same trailer you have Ken  -- made in NC by the "Long Trailer Co."   But at the time the company was experiencing extreme delays in their deliveries due to new management / reorganization.   Eventually, we ordered a bunked galvanized trailer for skiffs from "Load Rite Inc." via helpful sales rep David Katzenmeyer at WaterWorld Marine Inc in Durham, NC.  Delivery from Load Rite took a week longer than usual and then the trailer seemed to vanish for a few days when the delivery trucker unloaded it at WaterWorld in a hidder spot at o'dark thirty and then was unreachable because his wife delivered twins.   While we were waiting for the delivery, WaterWorld loaned us a new much more expensive trailer so that we could move the CS20 out of our basement and into the driveway.       

    Features: 1650 lb capacity,  leaf springs,  90" wide, 13" tires, 20' length, jack, spare, and 3 keel rollers between the bunks.  Trailer weighs 480 lbs.   For Load Rite trailers,  the difference between a 1650 lb carrying capacity trailer and, say, a 2260 lb carrying capacity trailer of the same model had nothing to do with softer/harder riding springs  -- the difference was entirely in the ratings of the tires!

    WaterWorld generously adjusted the bunks and rollers.  And, they threw in a another keel roller because Load Rite had installed 2 rollers as a pair on the rear transverse beam and installed 1 roller on the middle transverse beam.  That does add up to 3 rollers, as requested, but I had wanted one of them to be on the tongue.

    Good luck with your trailer, Wes.

[paul_stewart]

Photo of keel guard attachment method:  locknuts embedded in epoxy-filled oversized holes.

For further details see....

Pictures:  http://picasaweb.google.com/danceswithsandybottom/CS20_keel_guard__20080122

[paul_stewart]

   Here are some pictures of the way I spent last weekend.  Rather than write up a report I thought I'd post the link and let people ask questions about the parts of the trip that looked interesting - Fire away ;D

http://picasaweb.google.com/ken.potts1/20080607OuterBanks

Ken,

Thanks for sharing the great pics.  Looks like you had lots of fun.  Good winds?  Motor much?

Hey let's get together for a sail; maybe Jordan Lake if any wind.  Our CS20 "Dawn Patrol" has been in the water only 3 times since its 03/01/08 completion:   EC'08 (Alan&Paul),  CedarKey'08(Dawn&Paul), and JordanLake (Dawn&Paul).   Needs much more time on the water!

--Paul

[Maria CS20 104]

I got my ideas for the hull forms from your pics, do you recall how far apart you spaced the forms when you set the hull in for sewing?  We are CS20 #104.  My son and I are getting ready to set the hull for stitching as soon as I get my fir in for sidewalls.  Next, from start to launch how long would you say it has taken?  Mom would like to know how long she cannot have her garage.

Jim Atkinson

[paul_stewart]

Jim,

Would you be the father and son that Alan and I met on the beach at the starting line of the EC'08?

Regarding time requirements:   For CS20 #103,  Alan and I worked at a brisk pace for 133 days (or 19 weeks).  We made good use of the holidays.  Toward the end we pulled a few all-nighters.  We started on a Saturday and finished on a Saturday.  We had a specific deadline: 

October 10, 2007 -- received plans in the mail from Graham & Carla Byrnes.

October 19, 2007 -- first of many fun visits to Lowes for tools and supplies (Oh Boy!)

October 20, 2007 -- visited Graham & Carla to purchase all plywood and some epoxy

...

March 1, 2008 -- the finished boat sitting on the starting line for Everglades Challenge

March 4, 2008 -- arrived at the finish line.

As a first-time builder,  it seems easiest to talk about the time requirement in terms of "days".

Hard to say how many hours it took us.  Very very roughly, I would guess that we put in about 20hrs per week.  This is roughly in the neighborhood of the 400hrs that Ray noted.   It would be difficult to count the hours as they included time in the workshop as well as time spent purchasing supplies and tools, researching questions, planning, discussing options (e.g., colors of paint),  cleaning up,  thinking up solutions to problems while driving to work... etc.   Also, there may be times when you are waiting for a part or supplies to arrive,  or are waiting for epoxy to cure (e.g., you want epoxy on brightwork to become inert before starting to protect it with varnish.)   

Having a partner (or two) definitely makes the work go faster and is more fun.  Perhaps a couple of "first-timers" can work together to finish a CS20 in roughly the same number of days that it takes a professional builder to do it ?     Having a kit would make a difference, too.

   

In regard to the placement of the hull-shaped supports (cradle) under the hull during the early building stages, we used three:   one about 2' forward of the transom,   another mid-ship under the temporary bulkhead,  and one under the forward bulkhead.   

 

--Paul

[Ken_Potts]

  As a contrast - In case you are as disorganized and distracted as I am.

  Mine took 3+ years to build but that's because I really wasn't in a hurry.  No idea at all how many hours I spent.

[paul_stewart]

Regarding Hatch Latches:

QUESTION: What options have folks selected for holding the Core Sound seat hatches shut? Advantages and disadvantages? We were considering using those little stainless-steel latches that allow you to slip a padlock through to lock them. I think Ray mentioned that some folks use bungees, but I wasn't sure how that would be setup. Pictures would be great if anyone wants to offer their solutions.

Wes,

Here are a couple of picture of the latches on CS20 #103:  varnished babinga-wood blocks holding the red bungee,  bungee looped over a SS T-nut held by a SS screw.   I still need to install a neoprene/rubber gasket on the insides of the lids.  Also, my drain holes at the bottom corners are too small.  I'm planning to enlarge them so that the fiberglass gutters will drain at maximum speed.

Also below, a photo of the bungee latch that Graham was using on the EC22 (don't know if he might have changed it.)  The ends of the bungee are lashed/whipped together with small line.  Another photo shows the parts with the lashing omitted.  This latch system (that I tried to emulate) is light-weight and simple.  Note the adequately large drain holes at the corners of the hatch. 

Your ideas about lockable latches is intriguing. 

--Paul

[Rod Thompson]

Helpful pictures Paul. Those and the diagram Graham posted.  Does anyone find the their backsides bothered by the piano hinges/  Is it worth recessing the hinges in some way or are they far enough back to not be a bother?

[paul_stewart]

Rod,

No problems re. sitting on the hinges in the CS20 #103 "Dawn Patrol".  When the hours in the cockpit are long, as in the EC'08,  we had to sit on cushions anyway.

--Paul

[wkisting]

Thanks Paul! Great photos... very helpful, and a nice, simple setup.

I'm not sure locking hatches are a necessity, but we appreciated them on our last boat whenever we had to leave our boat for awhile to explore. It's nice knowing that camera equipment or whatever else might be stored in the hatch is reasonably secure from strangers who might be tempted to take a look in the hatches. That's the only reason I've been leaning toward the metal hasp-style latches.... because you can slip a padlock through.

[paul_stewart]

Wes,

Just to throw a few more ideas out there...    I can envision a wide variety of ways of creating a locked area within the storage space accessed by the hatches.   The pad-lock might be inside the space.   One example would be a plastic lock-box or pelican box blocked (by some mechanism and pad-lock) from being pulled out of the hatch.  Another example would be a hinged panel that swings between two positions  --out of the way, or to block off a secure space in one end of the space:  sketch below.   You can probably think of many better versions of the general idea.

[Dale Niemann]

For what it is worth, I like Paul's idea.  I may try something like that on "Lively".

Also, I am thinking that a hasp type closure may not put enough pressure on the seal to keep water out.

Dale

[paul_stewart]

Dawn made this photo of our CS20 while camping at Jordan Lake.

--Paul

[JeffM]

Paul, have you had enough experience with your cabin design to confidently critique it?  I'm thinking of visibility, windage, comfort, use underway and at anchor, little tricks to help make the most of it, etc.  You have one of only a very small handfull of cs's to have added a cabin.

[Guest wwbaginski]

Alan, looks like you have topping lifts on your boat ? Those ropes connecting  mast heads with fork sprits ends we can observe in that nice  photo? I was studying Jim Michalak's essay on reefing:

http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/1999/0701/Index.htm

and trying to figure the  "jiffy" reefing system for sprit sharpie rig. Just not to remove sprit from it's previous position (drawings 6,7 in the essay).  Do you practice it?

[Guest wwbaginski]

Well looks like Alan and Paul do own the same boat. So the question on a topping lift is to both owners

[Garry]

Beautiful photo Paul!

[Charlie Jones]

Travis is rigging jiffy reefing on his Princess 22 Pilgrim at this time. He recently got all the bits and pieces in and is working on setting it up. He and Graham went over the entire operation during the Tex 200.

I'm sure once he's done he'll be posting pictures and descriptions.