Countersinks

[P Doug (WA)]

I am curious as to what type of countersinks people have had the most success with? I bought the tapered bit countersink/counterbore with the stop collar from Lee Valley. They work pretty good. At first I had a problem with the countersink/stop collar sliding back after a few bores and I would get too a hole and countersink. I fixed that by putting masking tape behind the stop collar and countersink. The unit does get clogged up with sawdust pretty quick and I have to keep picking it out. This really happens fast when I an drilling into a glued joint. What else do you people use?

[Jan Williamson]

I bought a set of 8 I think countersink/phillip head bits from Sears, built the whole boat, and still have some left. $14 bucks. What was nice about them is that you don't have to switch bits.

[Steve Downs]

I found a Black & Decker set, 3 sizes for $7.99 at the DeWalt factory outlet store. I have only used one size so far but I'm sure glad I got it. It has saved a lot of work.

[Dave R1]

I've got both tapered and straight ones. My preference is the straight. I found the tapered ones I have tend to pull the bit into the wood and I had to reverse the drill to get it out. I find that I dull the bits before the countersink portion so I buy a small handful of bits and replace them when they start to bog down.

For any serious woodworking I still prefer to drill real pilot and shank holes then countersink (and counterbore if I'm bunging the holes).

[Stump]

I bought a movable sink and a seperate bit. Mine clogged up with glue a lot also so I just kept a small pick handy and cleaned it out as needed. Only forgot to get the glue out once before the glue dried :oops: then it was a little more difficult. Never had a problem with the sink slipping up, but then I cranked down fairly hard with the allen wrench too. :wink:

[Tim Diebert]

Oddly enough, I have been doing this sort of work for 28 years and never found a use for the tapered units. Either too big of a pilot hole or too small of a clearance hole.

I have seen some 'stepped' straight bits that might work well, but have not used them.

I use the Fuller countersink heads and put them with normal straight bits.

Setting a screw well required a clean plug/countersink hole, proper clearance hole and a proper pilot hole for screw threads. The pilot hole changes with the density of the material and type of screw you are using.

I go one step further and like to 'flare' either the back side of the clearance hole or lightly countersinking the pilot hole. This makes sure no swelled up material or broken fibers prevent the two pieces from a tight fit.

Doing any amount of screwing :roll: is always a two drill process for me. One set up with clearance counterbore and one set up with the pilot or shank hole.

My two cents worth.

[capt jake]

Fullers' are definitely the cat's meow in tapered bits. I too have reverted back to straight bits and countersinks.

[Barry Pyeatt]

I use the straight bit type as well. I have a set of the tapered ones but am not pleased with them when I'm doing this type of work. I have a set of Bosch countersink bits that I love, they are easy to use and adjust easily. I gott them with the purchase of some tool a few years ago and have been very happy with them.

I too look for bits that will allow me to place clean clearance holes and straight holes for the screw to grab onto. I plug a lot of things so they need a good clean counter bore. I will discard a contersink bit if it chips out at the surface at all. About once a year I will sharpen all of them that have been used to keep them that way.

[capt jake]

YEAH!! Barry's back!! :) 8) 8)

[RussMartin]

I'm using Vermont American "Screw Pilots". They're available individually, but the set of 4 (#6 through #12; p/n 16615) was a better deal.

[Charlie Jones]

Funny this thread should show up just now. Last Thursday I spent several hours scouring this town (Victoria) for a new pilot bit. I broke my old favorite one piece pilot, clearance, counter bore bit. It had been resharpend MANY times and was getting pretty thin anyway.

Bottom line? No joy NOBODY and I mean NOBODY, had a pilot bit... Not Lowes, Not Sears, Not Home Depot, not even the tool store. Or even the REAL old fashioned hardware store in Port Lavaca.

Still haven't gotten a new one. I'm modifing a spade bit to do the counterbores and I'll just drill clearance and pilots on my own till I can find one.

[Tim Diebert]

I feel for you Charlie.

I have had such things made up for me before....at least similar. Maybe you could do that...? Find a clever fab guy somewhere.

I have had occasion to need a 'giant' countersink. I had one made years ago, used it for all kinds of cool things around the boat yard I worked at.

I need one again a few of years ago, could not find it, so had another made. Come to think of it, I haven't seen that thing in a long time either....?

It was basically a long 1/2" bit with a countersink cutter head made and brazed in place. Great for countersinking washer and bolt head for keel bolts and such. I also used it for some massive knees I made for a 100 year old train station restoration....same thing, counter sinking bolts heads with a washer.....or the nut/washer end...whatever the application.

Just a little trick I stumbled on for getting the Fuller style countersink head nice and sharp and smooth cutting.

Before sharpening, slide the cutter down the bit so the flutes just extend a wee bit past the end of the drill bit. Chuck in a drill press, slowish speed. Bring this thing down on a nice sharp file to just even up those points on the countersink head...just so they are all touched...not far.

Then take the thing out and over to your grinder and sharpen to the new reference point. It's the same idea as 'jointing' a hand saw blade or circular saw blade before taking a file to it.

Makes a counterbore cut real nice and smooth.

[RussMartin]

Charlie, if you can't find a local source, you might try:

http://doityourself.com/store/screwpilotscountersinks.htm

Here's what I'm using:

http://tools.aubuchonhardware.com/power_tools/drill_chucks/4-piece_screw_pilot_set-319740.asp

[Tim Diebert]

How many flutes on those units Russ?

Looks like two.

Do they cut smoothly?

[Dave Fleming]

Greenlee was the brand of choice for many years in the yards.

Made a huge assortment of counterbores-countersinks-tapered drills-plug cutters-barefoot augers-screw point augers plus some damn fine edged toolsas well.

They started slimming down the line in the 1970's and, WL Fuller became the brand of choice.

In those days, all screws-bolts were American made.

Harper-RBW-Reed and Prince- to name a few makers.

Those screws and the Fuller tapered bits were almost a perfect match. No problems with using the combined counterbore/countersink/tapered drill setup.

When domestic screw manufacture began drying up is when the trouble started. You began hearing about tapered bits not boring the correct size holes and some even badmouthed Fuller. A number of yards went the step drill way. And writing in some 'boat' publications made it sound like a brand new idea. Bushwah, Greenlee had step drills in their catalog way back when but, it did seem to solve the tapered bit dilemma.

The days of a yard doing a new build and the fasteners coming in by common carrier in wooden barrels packed in slightly oiled saw dust are long gone. Now if a yard buys a 1000 screws at a time it is a big order.

What we found to solve the grief was to get the fasterners in the yard ASAP, send samples to Fuller and have them make up tapered bits to match those fasteners. Fuller will do that and will keep the samples on file for re-ordering. I spoke some time back with Dave Fuller and they are acutely aware of the fastener situation. They now make mention of the accuracy of their tapered bits in their catalog.

Try to buy your fasteners from old line suppliers like Standard Fasteners aka STA FAST in Mass. They will deal with small orders of 100 screws of a size.

My local, here in 'insane Diego' marine supplier, wanted $40 for a box of 1 1/4 x #12 Silly Bronz Flat Head Wood Screws! STA FAST, $26 plus $6 for shipping. I was still ahead with the shipping and it took just 4 days to get them.

Being an old anal type faht, I keep a second hand mechanics lower rollaround chest stocked with various non-ferrous fasteners.

Mostly Silly Bronz with some SS in there too.

I dunno but to me it seems false economy to buy 5 screws at .99 cents each when a box of 100 will bring the per unit price down to .23 cents each.

Suit yerselves, or so says I.

PS: WL FULLER will resharpen your counter sinks and drills for a price based fractionally on the cost of a new item. Been doing it for me for a long time.

[Phil Gowans]

The most used tool I had while building my boat was a Dewalt combination drill bit with countersink / screwdriver. I can't find a picture on the net of the type I used, but this is comparable. The bit was adjustable if I wanted a different depth hole. This allowed me to predrill with countersink, in a second switch to magnetic driver and put in a screw that I could later cover with a plug. I tried to use two drills, one for the hole and one to drive, but I kept misplacing one or the other and this tool let me always have both available right in my hand. I like it so much that even though the boat is done, I keep it on my rechargable drill all the time and can set screws easily anytime around the house. It only cost about $7.

[RussMartin]

How many flutes on those units Russ?

Looks like two.

Do they cut smoothly?

Two' date=' Tim. I don't have any complaints about them, but I don't use my variable-speed drills with them; I use my old trusty umpty-rpm job (or, when possible, the drill press set at its highest speed). The cut seems to be smoother in harder wood.

Greenlee was the brand of choice for many years in the yards.

Was it Greenlee or Greenlea? I still have some of their chassis punches around. They never wear out, which is a good thing, because I can't find replacements . . .

[Dave Fleming]

GREENLEE

http://www.greenlee.textron.com/

[jakehaynie]

I have used a countersink called "Jack Rabbit" for several years. The countersink bit slides on and off a regular bit that stays chucked up in your drill. Works really well and is available in several sizes. I got mine from a catalog called "Eagle" something or other.

[Russ Sylvester]

I used the DeWalt #8 very similar to the one Phil has pictured to build the boat. Nice little unit. I've since also bought the #6 and the #10. Once in a while I had a problem replacing the bit because it has a flat side on the shank for the set screw. I've gotten in the habit of buying three or four at a time now.