Shad Build.

[Mr Gingerbread]

Just startng a Shad build after many months of sitting on the plans. Should be nerve-racking/intresting as I have little experience with power tools outside of hand drill (Heck i'm 33 and don't know how to drive ). Just finished cutting out the plywood bits today in a friends workshop (off grid/no power at my cabin). Got lots of sanding in my future I think. Anyway so far so good and I'll try and post pictures as I go.

[Aimless]

Awesome!  You've taken the first step, you can do it.  My plans are supposed to arrive on Thursday, so I should be able to get started this weekend.  I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

[Mr Gingerbread]

Sanding day. Big problems getting the paper off. Had to scrape the paper and adhesive off with a chisel. Some chipping here and there when sanding but was fairly straight forward. Need to find a file to tidy up the stringer slots. I'll try and drill/glue/sand the coaming in the next few days. I might chicken out on cutting the stringers myself and get a friend to do it for me.

[Kudzu]

Just a note of anyone reading this and not to criticize!!  That is why I recommend the 3m supper 88 spray adhesive and a LIGHT coat. I have scrapped and sanded paper off too. The 3m is very expensive but I have yet to find anything as good. AND, the light coat is very important.

 

Now, back to you the main feature.

[Hirilonde]

I used phenolic resin glue (Elmers) but diluted it in water to about 10%.  Cheap and worked well.  I just sanded it off with a RO.

[Mr Gingerbread]

Went into the workshop the glue the coaming but the glue i had on hand (gorilla glue) said it was type II water resistance so I figure I might need to find some other glue in town. Thanks for the comments on glueing plans to wood for any future projects. I do appreciate it. This project is part learn as you go and part therapy for me. Rather then waste my time at the shop I grabbed my Greenland paddle from the rafters to do a long overdue re-carving. Carved this paddle 2 years ago and was way over built (the paddle got the nickname "bear mauler" by my fellow kayak guides). Grabbed the block plane and gave the paddle the wood equivalent of Liposuction. Also cut in rounded tips. much lighter now but will have to see how it rolls and how it holds up to banging on the rocks when i need to free clients. Had a laugh when my friend walked into the shop and asked me how I was planning on adding the blades to the paddle (Greenland paddles seem to confuse people). Sorry for the interlude on the build but it is kayak building related.

[P Doug (WA)]

Looking great!

[Mr Gingerbread]

Back at it now that the snow and trees have been cleared and the power lines put back up (took 4 days, we got hit hard on the island). Just finished the glue/clamp/drill/sand of the coaming. Woot. Will be another break as I pick out some wood for the stringers.

 

[Mr Gingerbread]

Getting started on the stringers after a bit of a delay. Heard I might have some problems gluing the yellow cedar scarf joints as yellow cedar doesn't take glue well (?). Did the scarfing with a jig and my hand miter saw. Gluing is turning out to be a slow process, Onward and upward as they say. Oh before I forget, anyone have any info on glassing  over a skin on frame kayak? My boss is pushing to do it as he has a friend that does it and he says it works well. Thinking about it because if I have a glass kayak I can use it for work (and it could pay for itself) and with a SoF kayak I can't (Guiding). Thoughts.

[Kudzu]

..... My boss is pushing to do it as he has a friend that does it and he says it works well. Thinking about it because if I have a glass kayak I can use it for work (and it could pay for itself) and with a SoF kayak I can't (Guiding). Thoughts.

 

<WARNING * The words FIBERGLASS brings out the EVIL SIDE OF ME>

 

It's a waste of time. If you want a fiberglass boat, build a fiberglass boat.

 

Yes there are people who do this but why?? I am not one of those people. No, I am not a fan of it. These are SOF, not fiberglass boats.

 

<END OF RANT>

 

 

Of course is your boat and I won't kick  you off the site if you do.

[msaxton]

Quote:

"if I have a glass kayak I can use it for work (and it could pay for itself) and with a SoF kayak I can't (Guiding)."

 

OK, I'll bite, why in the world would you not be able to use the SOF for guiding???, the only reason I could see is if you were doing whitewater, but otherwise it should be able to go and do anything a glass could.

[Mr Gingerbread]

Jeff:

Rants/opinions always welcome and I've come to expect it in the kayaking community. Really just try to get some solid info on it and as it stands I don't even have enough info to consider attempting it. Being able to work in my boat is the only interesting thing about glass to me, could charge more for mult-day tours and not constantly adjusting a fleet boat to my needs. Flip side is I much prefer the Greenland equipment and skills (a personal SoF kayak would work best) and working in the guiding side of things I have access to many fleets worth of plastic and fiberglass boats. Just chewing the fat for info.

 

MSaxton

 

OK, I'll bite, why in the world would you not be able to use the SOF for guiding???, the only reason I could see is if you were doing whitewater, but otherwise it should be able to go and do anything a glass could.

 

First, I totally agree with you. Welcome to the world of industry standards and insurance. SoF are not and will not be considered for Provincial or National guiding training/standards. If you don't follow those standards getting insurance (as a business) is tricky and no insurance means no business. There is of course the grey area of following those standards after you get your insurance as there is no inspection of business practice and bending/breaking of standards happens if the money is right. I would have to start my own company (not there yet) if I wanted to guide with SoF. Not really a new thing, in the 10+ years I've been doing outdoor rec & ed programing the cutbacks or removal of programs is due to two things, insurance pressures and less spatial awareness/ability of youth.

[kayak278]

Nathan C.....

 

I love that you have Star Trek: TNG on while you work.  LOL....I do the same thing in my shop!  Resistance is futile!

[Kudzu]

There is a fellow in one of the forums that uses Aircraft Dacron on his boats, which is a very lightweight fabric. He then slathers epoxy over his skin to add some protection and make it strong enough. Not sure if he actually adds a layer of fiberglass cloth or not? I don't think so.  But one of the big draws for me was no epoxy,. no screws, not glassing. I am not purist, but maybe I am a bit of minimalist? 

 

Adding epoxy or glass is just adding unneeded complexity and cost to a very good method. To my way of thinking, if you need a tougher boat for the way you use it then you need to look else where. SOF is not suitable for a lot of uses.

[msaxton]

Nathen;

Thanks for explaining the insurance thing, I couldn't figure why you couldn't use it, but i do understand business insurance restrictions.

 

Also commenting on what you said earlier about not having power tools, I thought about it while working on mine, and with the exception of ripping boards, you could actually build one of these with no power tools at all.

[Hirilonde]

The funny thing is that fiberglass isn't all that strong either, not if you are running into rocks.  White water boats are usually made of ABS plastic, kevlar composite or other such hight teck composites.

[Mr Gingerbread]

<starts shoveling>

Ok lets put this can of worms back in the earth.   I will not be "glassing" the kayak but the idea does intrigue me. I'll find out more from a builder coming to the spring kayak guide exchange who does it. Glass is the gold standard in the touring/guiding realm so I'd be remissed if I didn't look at it (even in a SoF build). There is no perfect material to build a kayak out of so I explore them all.

<tamps down earth>

 

Still up in the air over Polyester or Nylon. They both "do" something for me. Heck I still haven't ruled out Canvas. One quick question on these three skins though; How easy is it to re-skin a kayak after using one of these skins. I read in a book somewhere that canvas is the easiest to re-skin as the skin treatment doesn't glue the skin to the frame but the treated Nylon does, making it hard if possible to re-skin.

 

Back to the build. Still gluing the stringers and gunwale pieces together. I've set up the strongback and the brackets as well. Figured out where I will be putting in the hatch. Tossed some scraps together with the pieces for a bit of a visual for when all these pieces start to come together. I did drop a gunwale, not in a nice way, and it snapped along the scarf joint and this has me wondering if they are strong enough. the glue (titebond 3) seam not to penetrate too deeply into the yellow cedar fibers. As I said it was a bad drop (hit the work bench on the joint just a I grabbed the higher end of the thing) and wouldn't surprise me it broke but it does sew seeds of doubt. Any good ways of checking the joint strength? Also looking at making a seat from the ripping scraps.

 

Some pictures of the last day or two.

[Mr Gingerbread]

whoops..... Uh, ignore the tent door photo. Couldn't sleep so I decided to do a bit of glass frosting at 2am to block out the bright moon.... Not a kayak.

[mitchmellow]

Sorry to dig up the can (slightly at least) but here are a couple of references that might interest you.  The first is from Duckworks: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/howto/skin/index/htm .  The second is from kayak forum:  http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/archive.pl/bid/13/md/read/id/193480/sbj/skin-on-frame-fiberglass-on-cloth/ .  Working with fiberglass is messy and not to my liking but different strokes for different folks.

[mitchmellow]

Must not have gotten the duckworks address right.  Here's another attempt: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/howto/skin/index.htm