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Fishman38

fishman38 OK20

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Phishunt  if it's the stiffeners on the bottom stringers you're asking about, they're not rounded and I believe they're 3/4" x 1".  Will check tomorrow and let you know if otherwise.  I put those in while inverted after noting that nzlance did it that way on his Ocracoke 20 build.  So far I know of no problems doing it that way. 

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Got a little help cutting and fitting the transom doublers.

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Don't know how Miyot keeps his gluing so neat....

 

Note: Somehow got this post entered twice thus the comment in the previous post.  That was the only way I could figure to eliminate the duplicate.  i.e. I couldn't find a way to delete the entire post so I deleted everything on it and added back the comment.

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This is the fourth screw I've broken off.  The first three all broke well below the surface so they could be well encapsulated in epoxy.  This one not so much.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get this sucker out of there other than with hammer and chisel?  Local hdwe store was no help.

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I usually grind it down below the surface with a die grinder and epoxy over it. Or you could chizel enough from around the "stubb" to grip it with vice grips.

 

You can also make a kind of screw extractor by filing teeth into the end of a short section of steel or brass tubing that is just large enough in diameter to slip over the broken screw. Chuck it into your drill and let it cut a hole around the screw. You may have to slide a section of bolt into the tube where you chuck it into the drill motor. Then fill the hole and go on about your business.

 

There are extractors like this available to buy. I was at Graham's once when he showed me one. He said that they are pretty pricey though.

 

Ahhh, the joys of boat building...

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Thanks Chuck.  I like the "hollow drill"  idea that is the home-made hole saw.  Something like that was what I was hoping to find at the hdwe store.

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Fishman, what kind of screws are you breaking off?  Some take a screw driver and heat the end of it with a propane torch.  When it gets hot, put it to the screw head and hold it until it heats the screw.  This will soften the epoxy and you should be able to back it out.  You can buy the screw extractors for broken screws, like a mini hole saw.  If you get the metal lath screws at Lowes, you will not break any more.  In the entire build I believe I broke only one of the metal lath screws, I had used that screw several times .  It was not in the hull, so I used my smallest hole saw and cut it out and made a plug for the hole.

 

Another way to avoid breakage is to remove the screws before the epoxy cures fully.  This can't always be done if your not available at the proper time or your glue up is under a lot of stress and you can't back them out until a full cure is reached.  When to back them out is a judgement call.  Somewhere between 10 and 14 hrs.  According to your room temps and type of epoxy mix you are using.  I used silicon bronze screws for a lot of my build.  Especially attaching the inner hull layer to the stringers.  If one broke and the placement is good, not inter fearing with later fairing or such, you can just leave it in and forget it.

 

Now I found removing screws much less of a problem if you drill the hole after clamping the part together with the epoxy already on the join.  This leaves a pretty clean hole with very little epoxy getting on the screw.  When you remove the drill bit, a  small amount of epoxy will be on it, so you have to clean your bit occasionally   A quick check of the hole you just drilled and perhaps swab any remaining epoxy with the tip of a small screw.  Only takes a second, but is usually not needed.  Clamping and then drilling with the epoxy already on the part leaves a pretty clean hole.  I rarely broke even a soft bronze screw.  If you pre drill the hole and then remove the panel or part and then add the epoxy, reassemble and screw it down, you will get a lot of squeeze out through your pre drilled hole and will inevitably get stuck screws.  I would pre drill a few for alignment and the rest would be drilled after the piece was in place   Work the epoxy, love the epoxy.  Ask it to do what you want the way it wants to do it and it will love you to.  Just a little epoxy humor.  Really I hate the messy stuff.

 

Adding doublers and such that aren't under stress, remove those screws at about 8 hrs or a little sooner if your room is warm or your using a fast hardner.

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Are the lath screws that you use self drilling?  I have some that are not and in the interest of speed have opted for drywall type screws which don't need a pilot hole.  Maybe a mistake.  Also the screws that I've used that I think is the lath screw you describe have been bad about stripping out the phillips head (this was on another project, much harder wood, different type of driver), another reason I've been reluctant to use them. 

 

The broken screw mentioned above was in the situation you described above: pre-drilled and glue applied and a lot of squeeze out.  It was a one inch galvanized screw, which is the type I've used for most of the planking so far and was the first of the type that had broken.

 

Actually part of the problem maybe I'm a little too careless in removing the screws.  I use the impact drill and maybe should first use a manual driver to break them loose.  Live and learn as they say.

 

Where have you found the extractor (mini hole saw)?  I couldn't find anything like that at Ace Hdwe.

 

Thanks for the input!

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I use an impact drill as well.  The lath screws are self drilling but I always drill a pilot hole first.  The doug fir loves to split without one.  The screw extractors are available at highlandwoodworking.com  15.99 for one size or 42.99 for a 3 size set. #6 up to size #14.  

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Problem I have with the impact driver when backing out the screws I tend to yank the trigger and give it a TAP, TAP,TAP instead of gently squeezing the trigger to give it a tap,tap,tap until it breaks.  Sort of like shooting.  Trouble with that it still might break the screw instead of the glue.

 

I found the extractor at highlandwoodworking.com. This morning I decided to try to save the $16 plus shipping plus waiting a week to get it and try the following:

 

I tried to find a piece of suitable tubing to do as Chuck suggested above.  Best I could do was a 3/16 inch nut driver which I rarely use, chucked each end in the drill and ground off some excess material, filed teeth in the business end, with a small bit drilled a few holes around the broken screw, applied the home made extractor and voila five minutes later the screw is out.  Now if I can figure a way to get the screw out of the extractor for the next broken screw.....Building a boat has some similarities to the O & G industry I worked in for 25 years: involves a lot of improvising......

 

Thanks again to Miyot and Chuck.

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You can make your own screw extractors from roll pins using a die grinder and/or file to make the teeth.  Takes very little time.

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You can make your own screw extractors from roll pins using a die grinder and/or file to make the teeth.  Takes very little time.

Roll pins, good idea.

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Roll pins sound like an excellent idea.  They might be a little too hard to cut with a file?  The die grinder also sounds like an excellent idea but I don't have one (yet).  As a matter of fact I had forgotten that such things existed.  I've owned two Dremel tools over the years.  Neither of which were worth the powder it would take to .....well you know.  If I'd remembered die grinders the Dremel tools would have been replaced long ago.  So thanks for the reminder Hirilonde!

 

For grins here are the pics of my home made extractor:

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The file easily cut this thing.  Extractor may have to be re-sharpened every us though.

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I dug this out of my tool bag.  I haven't had to use one in a while.

 

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Yeah, the file might not help much except maybe to resharpen.  I found the shape of the teeth aren't all that important.  The key  is to have a jagged end and in inside diameter that is just smaller than the screw shank.

 

I bought my die grinder from Harbor Freight  They really are cheap and a lot more powerful than a Dremel.

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The last of the side stringer.  Hopefully will get the flair stringers in in the next few days and start the side planking next week.  A little southern engineering there in the first pic................wow!  One stringer there looks like I missed the mark.  I don't think it's as far off as it looks in the picture.  Hope not.

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Strangely, it looks worse in the pic it than it does live.  Go figure.  I may need to add some material to the one on the right and shave a little off the one on the left.

 

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Dry fitting and trying to coax this cypress tree into the proper shapes......there's gotta be a better way but I haven't found it.  Couple of these are the long remains of the pieces that broke yesterday,  Put them in the steam bath for awhile and they seem to be more cooperative now. Was able to fit them into the next (shorter) stringer position. Now will the glue bond ok?  I'll leave them as is for a few days while I start planking the after end and increasing the tension a little every day.

 

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