Coresound 15 #22

[DeeeCeee]

Hi to all the B&B fans,

Quick intro,  I'm from Brisbane Australia and have commenced building a CS15.  After searching the info on this forum I settled on the CS15 as most of my sailing will be singlehanded.

The build is well underway and I have just finished installing the sides to the tank/seats, with all going pretty much to plan so far.

I am planning on using two-peice masts with the bottom 10' being alloy and the tops, tapered timber.  Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of sail track on 2 piece masts, mainly regarding getting the sail slides passing the joins freely etc.

I have read the recent info regarding PVC sail track but would think this may be even more critical to align and keep free from damage around the joins when using 2-piece masts.

Will try to post a pic of progress to date....

[Peter HK]

  Quote

Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of sail track on 2 piece masts, mainly regarding getting the sail slides passing the joins freely etc.

I have read the recent info regarding PVC sail track but would think this may be even more critical to align and keep free from damage around the joins when using 2-piece masts.

Hi Dave

Glad to hear we will have another Coresound here in Brisbane...I have a CS17.

Not sure what you are concerned about.

If you want to regularly breakdown the masts to store in the boat then getting the sail track join to mate perfectly might be difficult.

If you are concerned about the step between the sections; I made track spacers for the slight variation in diameter and the slides don't notice it.

If you are concerned about connecting shorter pieces of sail track on a longer mast that you don't want to take apart then it's not too difficult.  I  carefully packed the track so that it was of the same level and clamped it then drilled the holes for the screws and added a little thickened epoxy behind it as belt and braces. The tracks have worked perfectly with no hesitation at the join. I think PAR (a regular contributer here and a professional boatbuilder) suggested that at the join it is advisable to drill and screw so that the screw/fastener is half in each part of the track to keep the join in alignment.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Peter HK]

Also

If you are making 2 piece masts and don't want a step then you can easily do so- just finish the base of the tapered wooden topmast to the same diameter as the aluminium base and trim off a few mm for the 9 inch section buried in the aluminium. It will look like a bought one :grin:

Cheers

Peter HK

[DeeeCeee]

Thanks for your reply Peter.

Yes I was hoping to break down the masts when not in use, this will allow me to store the boat in my shed without pulling things apart and repacking prior to use again,  hence the concern about getting the alignment to stay reasonablly accurate between assemblies.  Was just fishing for comments from someone who may have already done likewise.  It may end up that I have to make the masts fixed if that is the best option.

We'll have to catch up down the track a bit once the beast is wet, you'll probably be able to pass on a few tips.

[tom151]

  Quote

Thanks for your reply Peter.

Yes I was hoping to break down the masts when not in use, this will allow me to store the boat in my shed without pulling things apart and repacking prior to use again,  hence the concern about getting the alignment to stay reasonablly accurate between assemblies.  Was just fishing for comments from someone who may have already done likewise.  It may end up that I have to make the masts fixed if that is the best option.

We'll have to catch up down the track a bit once the beast is wet, you'll probably be able to pass on a few tips.

I saw one small boat with the track dovetailed at the mating ends

I don't know if this will reproduce in the post but maybe enough to give the basic idea

___  ______

  _/_/

|_|_

__\  \______

If I remember... he said he used a small hand-held grinder to do  the deed.

I don't remember the position of his fasteners - but I like the idea (PAR's?) of one fastener directly at the join for alignment.

[Gordy Hill]

Dave,

I built CS 17 #11 before there was a forum. Really could have used these guys! At first I had two-part masts but found them a huge pain.

I really think you should consider sleve luffs. They make a much cleaner airfoil and wrap neatly around the mast to store. This also allows for a window in the main since it rolls up neatly and it doesn't get folds in it when stored.

Your sails are small enough for you to reef by rolling up the main and just picking up the mizzen, fully rigged, and putting it in the center position. Thus reefed, my boat was an absolute joy to sail when everyone else was heading for the ramp.

I made pvc crutches and stored the masts with the sails rolled around them. The masts made a perfect ridge pole for a tarp. I had a long sleeve made to cover the masts with the sails on them. It had a long zipper and if the package doesn't fit in your shed perhaps there's a place outside where you could store it.

I be sailing ten minutes after showing up at the ramp. This is really important. The easier it was to actually get on the water, the more often I'd go sailing. Every extra little step involved made it easier to put things off.

If I were building another CS 17 I'd use the sleve luffs. If I were building a CS20 I'd go with the tracks. With your boat I personally  wouldn't consider anything but sleve luffs.

Just my two cents...

You're gonna LOVE that boat!

[DeeeCeee]

Thanks for replies.

TomH....May end up trying something like that.

Gordy.....  My initial idea when I purchased the plans was to use sleeve luff sails.  In fact from reading the forum I was convinced to go this way for the simplcity and speed of rigging that you speak of well before I ordered the plans.

After I had received the plans, I emailed Graham regarding this and he suggested that he was moving away from sleeve luffs and to this end has not drawn up the sailplan for the CS15 with sleeve luffs.  I'd still be keen to go down that path but don't want to go against the designers advise.

At this stage I could still go either way as I haven't ordered the sails yet.

Cheers

Dave

[Mike Vacanti]

If the goal is to be able to wrap the sail around the mast for storage isn't the limiting factor the battens and not sleeve vs. track? If you had battenless sails I don't see why you couldn't use a track as long as you had the halyard cleat on the mast. This would give the ease of reefing of the track arrangement with the convenience of on-the-mast sail storage. And I agree that storing the sail wrapped around the mast is more convenient than removing the sail after every outing and reinstalling it at the start of every outing.

[Peter HK]

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If the goal is to be able to wrap the sail around the mast for storage isn't the limiting factor the battens and not sleeve vs. track?

There are quick release velcro batten pocket arrangements also, so you can have quick fit/release battens if you want to roll the sails around the masts.

[Gordy Hill]

The Hobi Islander has a really neat, long diagnal batten that I didn't get a chance to get a good look at. The battened sail gives a lower center of effort, but in the real world I don't think anyone would notice it. In theory the battened sail would be a scosh faster off the wind and the clean luff sleve would be a bit better upwind. Long ago in flight school I happened to be awake when it was mentioned that one simple wire - rod - line- haulyard had much more drag than one would imagine. Removing all the wires on a byplane made an incredable differance.

        The wings fell off.

                      No, not really, but I just couldn't help myself. The Stagger-wing Beach is a case in point.

Just because Graham kinda looks like Yoda doesn't mean he's ALWAYS right.

                          Well ok, he's never WRONG, but everything is a trade-off and personally, I'd go with the sleeves.

[Gordy Hill]

That's COOL Peter!

[Peter HK]

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but everything is a trade-off and personally, I'd go with the sleeves

I agree and I think it's a case of what suits the individual. If I had a job where I finished a bit early and lived next to an inland lake where the breezes were generally light I'd certainly have battenless, sleeve-luffed sails wrapped around the mast. It's so quick to rig and so one could quite often fit in a couple of hours of sailing at the end of the day. My brother built a Bolger Gypsy which was like that- unroll the sail and plonk in the mast, attach the spritboom with a couple of lines and go sailing- 5 mins rigging/unrigging.

I however have a job with on-call and rosters, so have to arrange time off and have few spontaneous sailing opportunities. The weather may not be perfect on the day. If I go for the whole day the conditions may change (and often do on the bay where I sail most often) and ease of reefing on the water becomes more critical. So I choose to have tracks and 2 reefs in each sail and reefing lines arranged so that I can reef from the cockpit and put up with the extra time to rig and unrig (about 30 mins single handed and not rushing, from stopping the car at the ramp to sailing off into the distance)

I think you have to decide what will work best for you.

Cheers

Peter HK

[Gordy Hill]

You make some good points Peter.

I was hoping some of the guys who've made the change from sleeve to track might join in with the pros and cons.

I think the smaller the boat, the more I'd be inclined to go with the sleeves.

[Hirilonde]

I use my Spindrift 9N as a tender.  When I am sitting in a harbor at anchor I would like to leave my dinghy rigged.  To be able to simply lower the sail and tie it off to the boom while tied behind Hirilond

[Dale Niemann]

I switched early on from sleeve to track.  I have never been sorry.  I like tracks much better.  I do not have battens. I roll and store the sails on the masts.  Storage, set up and take down is just as fast.

Most important is the ability to reef in a blow.  Even if you have the third mast hole as I do, to move one sail to that position in a blow is next to impossible if you are out on the water with shelter not readily available.  If I were doing it again, I would not construct the third mast hole and open up the cockpit to the forward bulkhead.

I have a CS 17 'Lively'.

[DeeeCeee]

Thanks for all of your comments.

I still have a bit of time to think about the pros and cons of the different systems before I finally decide which way to go.

In the mean time I've still got plenty of work to do to get the hull complete.

I'll post some pics closer to launch time and let you all know which way I decided to go regarding the masts and sails.

Cheers

Dave