Interesting boat

[wkisting]

Hey Jeff,

I've thought of adding a breakaway clam cleat to my CB as well. On your setup, did you remove the bungee cord then? That would be my main motivation for making the switch, as my current bungee setup makes it difficult to lower the board in situations where there is any sideways pressure... the bungee stretches rather than transfering my downhauling effort to the board. If I omit the bungee and use a breakaway clam cleat to keep the failsafe kick-up-ability in the system, that would remedy the problem.

[sitearch]

Sorry Jeff, didn't get to respond yesterday.

I have pretty good room to move around in the cuddy/cabin. I have about 42" from the sole of the cuddy to the top and the stretch out is about 8'-6" to the bow. That would make it from the top of the berth to the cabin roof about 33".  I'm 5'-11" and I fit just right under the roof of the cabin. The way I managed the clearance was to slightly slope the berth from forward to aft in the cabin area. That way I can sit up next to the companionway and just barely clear the roof. We figure that is the only place we really need to sit up. The rest of the cabin is for putting our gear and our feet when we are stretched out in our sleeping bags. When we discussed the cuddy/cabin modification with Graham I was going to leave the berths out and just use the sole which would have given us more useable space, but Graham wanted me to include some additional buoyancy tanks along the sides--accomplished by the sealed berths. He has had problems with capsizes and cuddies without some buoyancy tanks inside and along the hull.  My companionway is quite high off of the sole of the cockpit so I never get water inside. Even with a capsize I don't think the cuddy would get water inside. I haven't performed my test yet. That will be next summer.

In hindsight I would have built the Princess 22 had I room in the garage and had I had more confidence in my ability to build a boat in the first place. I am having a blast with my boat but I truly wanted more freeboard which would have given me more room inside the cuddy.

One huge benefit of the cuddy that I didn't really foresee was how dry it keeps the boat. We will see when we get in the bays during a big blow.

The only regret about the cuddy/cabin is the centerboard being right in the middle of the space. We work around it but....

We wanted the cuddy for privacy, to get out of the rain and to sleep in when tinkering around the many coves here.  I like how yours is walk through from both sides. That is definitely cool.

Hopefully, one of these days I am going to build the Princess 22 or 26.

Hope this is helpful.

Bob

Alaska 

[sitearch]

Oh, Wes I forgot to respond to you as well,

The kickup of the foil rudder is pretty simple. The rudder is slighting tapered from the bottom to top--top being wider then at the bottom--and is held tightly in the rudder box with a bungee. When an obstacle is hit the rudder pops back a bit but also slips upward as well. The clearance between the skirt and the rudder is controlled by the bungee, so the rudder movement is restricted to mostly upward and a little outward if that makes sense.  I added a ton of extra space between the rudder and the skirt just to avoid any contact. 

Take a look at Michael Storer's site and his Goat Island Skiff design. One of the things I really liked was how simple it is.

I can see from all of the post about the rudder that everyone is having some issues which is what I wanted to avoid.  I don't have any of those problems. My rudder stays down no matter the side pressure and it stays in place under power. This may be the big difference as well, because my motor is forward of the rudder yet really close the force is huge when under power. The other real advantage to the foil type I have on my boat is the aerodynamics of the foil or dagger type rudder as opposed to the other.  It cuts deep and is very effective in giving some extra lift to the boat.

Thanks for your interest Wes. I am still learning tons so I really appreciate you folks who are big time sailors.

Happy sailing.

Bob

Alaska CS #199

[Ty Cassedy]

Bob, Really like a lot of the modifications you have made.  I already have plans for a CS 17.  A few questions: What is the length of the total addition including skirt, and to the transom only?  How big is the motor well?  What size motor have you installed and what speed do you achieve at full throttle?  I live in the Puget Sound area and I think have some of the same desires/concerns as you had (i.e. need to motor when no wind or bucking a significant tide, danger of going in the water because it is cold and you don't last long).  But I really like the CS 17 speed and stability characteristics.  Thanks for your insites.  Ty

[wkisting]

Ha ha... I'm no big time sailor   Just curious about everything. My wife and I got into sailing by building a Pocket Cruiser and learning to sail by trial and error. Then we built the CS20 and realized how much easier sailing can be with the benefits of the cat ketch rig and the comfort/convenience of a large open cockpit.

The rudder design looks pretty slick. I haven't had any troubles with the one Graham has drawn for the stock plans and I like it very well. It looks like your version might be easier to build, though.

[JeffM]

Bob, my dimensions almost exactly.  My cabin, being farther aft, has a bit more leg room, but the berth top, continuous with the seats in the cockpit, give just short of 33" at the highest point under the closed hatch--all the height the rig will allow, plus a little.  But at 6'2", I can't sit up but have to stare at my bellybutton.  (I blame my parents.)  My cabin isn't walk-through, since I have a solid chunk of roof between main and fore hatches.  But I can get easily to the fordeck without going around the side decks, which are very narrow on my boat.  Having said that, I very seldom resort to going through the cabin.  My boys sometimes go through, liking to hang out on the fordeck in gentle weather.  More relaxing for Dad in all ways.  My reasons for building a cabin are the same as yours, including keeping spray out of the cockpit.  My cb up and downhauls originally left out the bungee because I knew the stock design would interfere with raising the port floorboard.  But I found I liked the positive control over board position, and I added the releasing clam cleat to have the best of both worlds.  (I sometimes still have to ease the pressure on the board to move it, though.)  

[sitearch]

Thanks Jeff and Wes. As always I appreciate the dialog from you guys and I always learn so much.  My wife and I are just learning and having lots of fun with it, but now our boat is stored for the long winter here. Can't wait until next summer though. 

Ty,

Here are some of the dimensions you wanted, but this is a long answer--sorry about that.  I will verify for exactness when I get a chance but to the best of my memory give or take a few inches...the skirt is 2'-9" from the transom. That dimension generated from the width of the rudder and a desire to increase the water line to as near a 20 footer as I could get.  I played with the opening in the skirt but made it as  close to 70 degrees as I could to either side giving the rudder as much operating room as possible. Actually the rudder box strikes the transom before the rudder hits the skirt opening so it is actually a little less for the rudder to operate, but the boat really responds to this rudder. I can turn on a dime as the saying goes. The motor well also reduces the keel toward the stern.  I use a strong bungee chord to keep the rudder tight to the rudder box, yet allows it to kick up and out a bit. I can adjust how much rudder I want down if I am in shallow waters and still get good steering.

The motor well was designed for a particular motor. That may seem a little reversed than how Graham-who is a real sailor and would want no motor-would do it, but I knew I wanted as much motor as I could get and not sink the boat. I sized it for a Tohatsu 9.8 horse power 4 stroke short shaft which weighs 80 lbs which is only 20 lbs more than a 6 horse power. I don't regret it either. That was another reason for changing to a different rudder design as well because I needed to clear the top of the motor with the tiller. So far I have only been able to open the throttle up to a little more than 1/2 power for the break in period of ten hours so I can't say what she will do wide open but I can tell you that at 1/2 throttle we were making at least 10 mph, which is great for a sail boat of any kind. For dimensions the well is 25 inches long from transom and 18 inches wide. I built the sides of the well up to the side deck to control any water from the transom when motoring and protect from the cooling stream of the motor which on my motor shoots out from the corner/rear of the motor. With that dimension I can just tilt the motor to the first step which just lifts the propellers out of the water when under sail. I don't know what would happen without the skirt which provides a significant amount of buoyancy aft of the transom and offsets a lot of the motor weight. I can tell you that I can stand on the very end of the skirt and it makes little difference in the water line and I weight 185 lbs, so I know it is making a difference.

I was going to build a cover to put over the well but it isn't necessary because my motor really fills the well and so far haven't gotten any water in the cockpit when motoring even at high speeds and of course sailing at any speed. The well is narrow by design because I didn't want to rob too much space from the cockpit and I don't steer with the motor. The motor remains stationary allowing the rudder to provide steering.

Hope this is helpful.

I will tell you that if I were starting my boat again, Ty,  I would probably build a princess 22 which would give me more freeboard. After talking with Graham quite a bit on these modifications we both wished I had more freeboard on my modified CS17, but as he told me it was designed to be an open cockpit boat. He has since designed a CS17 with a cuddy/cabin which has more free board by about 6 to 8 inches, but I have only seen one drawing for it to date. My boat is still extremely dry even with the smaller freeboard. Best of luck on your building project. Let me know how it is going and feel free to ask any question.

Bob

Alaska #199

[Docpal]

Bob,

I think a number of us would REALLY like to see pix of the interior layout of your CS17. Thanks !

[Ty Cassedy]

Thanks for the great response and insight as to what went into your decisions.  Ty

[sitearch]

Hi DocPal,

There really isn't much to see. It is just a v-berth space.

But see if this will do.

It isn't very good and I will pull up another picture. Remember that we still need to complete the finish work inside for next season. We wanted to get the boat in the water before winter up here so we left off some of the final finishes.

That will be fun for next summer. I am also still seriously considering building in tabernacles as well.

Take care and thanks for the interest.

Bob

Alaska #199