The Great Bowline Controversy

[Frank Hagan]

Two methods to tying a bowline ... in one, the bitter end is routed behind the standing part and back down into the loop, and in the other, the bitter end goes in front of the standing part.  Which is correct?

[Charlie Jones]

Can't get either video to load for me, but Ray is correct. Here's a link to a picture of tying a bowline two different ways- I prefer the first.

http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

Do realize that a Bowline is not a fool proof knot- It CAN shake undone under the right conditions. Which is why I use the Buntline hitch for halyards and dead ending sheets like main sheets at the becket.

[ChrisObee]

They are both the same.  One of them is holding the loop upside down and the other right side up. In one the loop has the crossing rope on top of the and the other has the crossing rope under.  I was taught to tie the knot like the second fella.  I've been told they won't come loose under tension. 

[Charlie Jones]

Still can't see the videos, so I can't comment. I sit here for 5 or 6 minutes watching a little circle of dots go round. and round. and round. ;D

[Hirilonde]

The second one is correct.  Both will work most of the time, but the second one has less chance of slipping.  The bitter end should end up inside the loop.

[Ken_Potts]

  There are three methods shown.  The first video shows two ways to tie it.  The first method in the first video shows the loose (bitter? whatever) end of the rope finishing up on the outside of the loop.  The second method in the first video shows the rabbit running around the tree in the other direction and ending up on the inside of the loop.  This is the correct way (more on that in a minute).

  The second video shows a variant of the second method on the first video.  the rabbit runs the correct direction around the tree but ends up on the wrong side (outside) of the loop.  This is still the correct method but the cross-over might allow the knot to slip a tad before locking up.  As long as there's plenty of tail on the knot there won't be a problem, the methods are virtually identical.

  Disclaimer:  My knowledge of which method is correct comes from my long dead climbing days.  I heard (from a trusted source) that in destruction tests of both methods in the first video, the second method proved stronger by a significant amount.  I never tested the two knots to destruction but you can...  Let us know the results.

[PenGrace]

They are both the same.  One of them is holding the loop upside down and the other right side up. In one the loop has the crossing rope on top of the and the other has the crossing rope under.   I was taught to tie the knot like the second fella.  I've been told they won't come loose under tension. 

Both should work the same.

[Tom Lathrop]

I Just found a pin on the floor and it had 14 angels sitting on the head.  At least I think they were angels since they were all thumbing their noses at me.

[Frank Hagan]

I Just found a pin on the floor and it had 14 angels sitting on the head.  At least I think they were angels since they were all thumbing their noses at me.

Well, now you've spoiled the next big question I was going to ask!

[JeffM]

Here's a better knot than the bowline, tied any of these ways: the double figure-of-eight.  This link has replacements for traditional knots that work better in modern synthetic cordage.  http://www.geocities.com/imabushie/knots.pdf  I found this collection when I was trying to solve the problem of my rode threatening to part ways with my anchor--anchor bends, bowlines, buntline hitches all worked loose.  I am, needless to say, no great hand with knots, but this one is doing the job beautifully.

[Tom Lathrop]

Jeff, I did have a bowline come loose on a jib sheet once as a result of way too much flogging.  Or maybe it was not tightened enough to start with.  That is the only failure I ever had.  The double bowline would be more certain but I will probably not change for any ordinary use.  Maybe for a bos'n chair. 

[Ken_Potts]

Jeff,

I have long experience with the double figure-eight.  It is (or maybe was, it's been a while) the climber's choice for tying in to the belay line.  It is a very good knot - If I remember correctly it is stronger than the bowline (or the double bowline) but do not load it too heavily.  If you load it to near the breaking strength you will not be able to untie it.  If you don't believe me I have a short section of retired climbing rope in the back of my truck that has a double eight tied in it.  I tied it up one day to pull a car out of a bad spot (I think it was a snow bank) - I've tried to untie that knot several times over the years to no avail. I've even used pliers, but the knot is still there.  Maybe a couple of vicegrips would work...

Like so many things with boats everything's a tradeoff.

[Hirilonde]

I have never had a bowline come undone, I did have one once that could not be untied.  We had been dragging a warp tied off in a bowline in a tropical depression and 40 foot seas for 36 hours.  I cut it off and saved it for knot tying demos in Boy Scouts to show the exception that proves the rule.  I will be sticking with the bowline as well.