Wow, the reaching!

[SUKIE]

Today I applied the epoxy "tabs" down the center line, and tomorrow will remove the wires and do the fillet and tape. My problem is, reaching that spot in the boat is extremely difficult, and will be even more so when it comes to the taping. How do you do this? I assume that at some point I can climb inside, but I have only 2 support points, one under each bulkhead, and it just doesn't feel strong enough, at least not yet.

Any advise?

[JeffM]

I think you'll have to climb inside.  I positioned a wide support just where I expected to be working, then moved it along as needed.  Once I didn't do it right and broke half-a-dozen tabs--a little upsetting, but no lasting damage after I re-tabbed.

[Randy C.]

Sukie,

I think I saw this on this forum somewhere. A man put a stepladder on each side the boat and a board between the ladders(it may have been bow to stern), then he layed on his stomach on the board to reach the middle. It looked like it worked pretty good.

[Ken_Potts]

  Randy I think You're talking about this one - Alan posted a picture of his hanging scaffold here:

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?topic=5825.0

  I was envious of the creativity - When I did the center seam I just reached really hard.  It was quite uncomfortable.

  If you're building outdoors a hot air balloon on a calm day might work nicely ;D

[wkisting]

That's funny, Ray.... Graham is always telling me, "Thank goodness you don't whine like Ray."    (kidding, of course)

[SUKIE]

I love the trapeeze solution and will do something similar.

But, I'm curious about the tape/no tape dilema. Graham wrote in his initial instructions to me to tape the center seam, although it seems that the keel batten serves the same purpose. I'd sure like to omit that step if possible but don't want to comprimise hull strength.

[Designer]

You really don't need the tape on the inside seam under the keel batten. It is just there to prevent the seam from cracking from the local stress from the temporary screws that you need to use to draw the keel down to the bottom. On the kit prototype I cut some V chocks that were cut to the V shape of the bottom and screwed through them on center while they crossed the bottom panels. This allowed me to draw the keel batten down to the bottom without cracking the epoxy.

I was careful to not over screw, just drawing the keel batten down until it was snug.

[Docpal]

You really don't need the tape on the inside seam under the keel batten. It is just there to prevent the seam from cracking from the local stress from the temporary screws that you need to use to draw the keel down to the bottom. On the kit prototype I cut some V chocks that were cut to the V shape of the bottom and screwed through them on center while they crossed the bottom panels. This allowed me to draw the keel batten down to the bottom without cracking the epoxy.

I was careful to not over screw, just drawing the keel batten down until it was snug.

This is just a quick introduction, and a test to see if I can finally post on the Forum, (I've been having a lot of problems having my password recognized in the last few days...)

My name is Bill "Doc" Palumbo and I am currently building CS 17 hull # 204 ( AKA "  S/V Petunia "). I saw Ray's post and wanted to comment on the idea of using a CNC kit compared to the more "traditional"methods.

First a quick disclaimer; I work for the company that makes the CNC machine Graham is now using ( Shopbot Tools) , and I travel around the country teaching people about CNC. Some of my careers prior to being a robot guy were educator (including a stint as the director of a  boat building school in the SF Bay area in the '80's) and running a towing and salvage business in the Florida Keys . So my "take" on the CNC process is a little different. "Petunia"will be my 4th CNC cut boat, ( and 14th overall)  but before that I had my fair share of pounding cotton, and steaming frames, and installing shutter planks with forklifts, etc. I'm glad I learned that part of the process, but I'm also very glad that I'm not doing that on a daily basis any longer...Of course I'm also not as interested in larger boats as I used to be, and the advent of good marine design hardware, and affordable CNC machinery got me into this  side of the process about 12 years back when I bought my first machine with the idea of building canoe kits.

Ray nails the process very well. It is nearly impossible to get the consistent precision of a machine using traditional methods when building small boats. At least when dealing with sheet materials. When working at the Wooden Boat shows a few "old timers" would always come up and watch us building kits for awhile, and then they'd always ask "can you do sliding bevels for plank edges with that gadget?". My response would have to be "no this machine only works in 3 axes, not 5" and they'd walk away triumphantly...Sure I could cut 4" thick futtocks, and stems just as easily, but these days I just don't want to...

Tight seams, good gluing surfaces, and symmetrical panels are there with some thought, some basic design work, and some electricity. And now instead of having a wall full of building jigs, I can carry an entire "fleet"of designs in my pocket on a flash drive.

I can also be coating some pieces while the machine is cutting out the next set of parts, and I don't need to worry whether or not my "employees"are working, or goofing off.

I've just returned from a few teaching trips out of town, and I'm now looking forward to jumping into the assembly of "Petunia". I'll also try to go back through the Forum here and try to learn from other's experience(s). I have a very limited space to work in so I'm being forced to do all of this is a much more logical sequence than I was used to when I had my own boatyard, but that's probably a good thing. My days of being a "wrecker"in Key West taught me that there is NO such thing as a boat that is built "too strong", and I am a "belt and suspenders" kind of guy when it comes down to boat construction.  I suspect that I'll wander from the instructions every once in awhile when I see a way to gain strength, with little loss of performance. But having said that the main reason I was drawn to the CS 17 was that it is such a well designed hull, I think I can do so with little fear of compromising her integrity. I'm a big fan of "cross pollinating" tradition and technology, and I will try to document my build accurately so maybe I can add to this great pool of knowledge I see being assembled on the Forum.

I'm now going to hit the "preview"button and hope that I haven't done all this typing just for practice...

[Docpal]

You really don't need the tape on the inside seam under the keel batten. It is just there to prevent the seam from cracking from the local stress from the temporary screws that you need to use to draw the keel down to the bottom. On the kit prototype I cut some V chocks that were cut to the V shape of the bottom and screwed through them on center while they crossed the bottom panels. This allowed me to draw the keel batten down to the bottom without cracking the epoxy.

I was careful to not over screw, just drawing the keel batten down until it was snug.

This is just a quick introduction, and a test to see if I can finally post on the Forum, (I've been having a lot of problems having my password recognized in the last few days...)

My name is Bill "Doc" Palumbo and I am currently building CS 17 hull # 204 ( AKA "  S/V Petunia "). I saw Ray's post and wanted to comment on the idea of using a CNC kit compared to the more "traditional"methods.

First a quick disclaimer; I work for the company that makes the CNC machine Graham is now using ( Shopbot Tools) , and I travel around the country teaching people about CNC. Some of my careers prior to being a robot guy were educator (including a stint as the director of a  boat building school in the SF Bay area in the '80's) and running a towing and salvage business in the Florida Keys . So my "take" on the CNC process is a little different. "Petunia"will be my 4th CNC cut boat, ( and 14th overall)  but before that I had my fair share of pounding cotton, and steaming frames, and installing shutter planks with forklifts, etc. I'm glad I learned that part of the process, but I'm also very glad that I'm not doing that on a daily basis any longer...Of course I'm also not as interested in larger boats as I used to be, and the advent of good marine design hardware, and affordable CNC machinery got me into this  side of the process about 12 years back when I bought my first machine with the idea of building canoe kits.

Ray nails the process very well. It is nearly impossible to get the consistent precision of a machine using traditional methods when building small boats. At least when dealing with sheet materials. When working at the Wooden Boat shows a few "old timers" would always come up and watch us building kits for awhile, and then they'd always ask "can you do sliding bevels for plank edges with that gadget?". My response would have to be "no this machine only works in 3 axes, not 5" and they'd walk away triumphantly...Sure I could cut 4" thick futtocks, and stems just as easily, but these days I just don't want to...

Tight seams, good gluing surfaces, and symmetrical panels are there with some thought, some basic design work, and some electricity. And now instead of having a wall full of building jigs, I can carry an entire "fleet"of designs in my pocket on a flash drive.

I can also be coating some pieces while the machine is cutting out the next set of parts, and I don't need to worry whether or not my "employees"are working, or goofing off.

I've just returned from a few teaching trips out of town, and I'm now looking forward to jumping into the assembly of "Petunia". I'll also try to go back through the Forum here and try to learn from other's experience(s). I have a very limited space to work in so I'm being forced to do all of this is a much more logical sequence than I was used to when I had my own boatyard, but that's probably a good thing. My days of being a "wrecker"in Key West taught me that there is NO such thing as a boat that is built "too strong", and I am a "belt and suspenders" kind of guy when it comes down to boat construction.  I suspect that I'll wander from the instructions every once in awhile when I see a way to gain strength, with little loss of performance. But having said that the main reason I was drawn to the CS 17 was that it is such a well designed hull, I think I can do so with little fear of compromising her integrity. I'm a big fan of "cross pollinating" tradition and technology, and I will try to document my build accurately so maybe I can add to this great pool of knowledge I see being assembled on the Forum.

I'm now going to hit the "preview"button and hope that I haven't done all this typing just for practice...

After all that I posted to the wrong thread... I MEANT to post to Ray's thread "Core Sound hull # 233". Not an auspicious debut, but at least I know how to post now...!

[Oyster]

Docpal.nice post and interesting too of your background!  I remember the early days of the Shopbot when Bill Young was also in the setup of your machine. The only other CNC router table that I was exposed to was the Sabre, a very high dollar one and was surprised at how the simple machine would do boat jigs as good. I will be looking foward to your followup posts on your own boat including real to life photos!

[Randy C.]

Sukie,

Maybe I missed it, but how did installing your keel batten go? I did mine a couple weeks ago and even though I have a pretty good 'wing span' it was a pretty good reach.

[SUKIE]

Randy,

Funny you should ask, I was just noticing this morning that I have about 10 bruises all across my rib cage! Installing the keel batten went smoothly, I used Graham's advise and cut out wooden "V"s to span both bottom panels and screw up into the batten to hold it as epoxy cured. There was one 10" span where I hadn't put in enough goo and so I later poured in thickened epoxy, as thick as I could get it so it would still run downhill, and filled the void (I hope). Also did the double layers of tape on all seams, I think reaching into the bow area was the cause of the bruises. I'm 5'6" and my reach isn't quiet enough without almost diving in there.

Now I've coated the seat sides with skim coat of epoxy and decided I may as well do everything once since it'll be easier now than later.

What I'm not sure of is, at what point do I flip the hull to work on the bottom? Seams like that should happen pretty soon, flip it once, do the whole thing to finish coat, then flip back to finish. Maybe build the CB trunk first so I can mark where it goes, then cut the opening from bottom side.

What point are you at Randy?

[Randy C.]

Sukie,

A week ago last Friday I took the day off to work on the boat. I Installed the keel batten, double taped the chine, taped the inside of bow. I also installed the foreward and aft bulkheads, and installed and taped the transom. Since then I haven't really done much of anything. I need to get going on it. I just have too many things going on in the summer.

As far as flipping yours over to finish the bottom, I think you would want to have the CB installed so you can cut the slot and tape while it's flipped. I could be wrong, I have been before, so don't take my word for it. But, that's how I plan on doing mine.