Reefing practices and tricks

[Travis Votaw]

Tom said:"That is a problem resulting from the non-rotating mast.  On the Southern Skimmer, we ran the snotter to both sides of the mast which allowed the sprit enough freedom so that adjusting on each tack is not necessary.  Maybe Graham will post a photo to show the rig.  It is a rig that I used many years ago on a racing sloop boom vang for the same purpose.  That is, it maintained even tension as the sail was trimmed in and out."

Tom, I hope you can get Graham to post a picture, or, could you explain this in a little more detail?

I think I understand how one could attach the snotter tackle to one side of the mast, run the line through the block on the end of the sprit, and then run the line through a block on the other side of the mast and then on down the mast to wherever you wanted it to go.  Is this what you are talking about?

Only problem I see for me doing this now is that I'd end up with three sets of holes in my alum mast at about the same location, thus potentially weakening my mast to the point it could have a catastrophic failure

Any comment ???

[JeffM]

Here's a question that applies to all the sprit-boomed rigs, both setting up and reefing: when it's blowing pretty well and the loose clew is alternating between beating you up and trying like mad to escape you , how do you get the end of the sprit into the loop on the clew?  It would help a lot if there were a place to rest the forward end of the sprit so you didn't have to balance it.  An alternative would be to have something to hook the snotter to so that the end of the sprit could go into the clew before the mast was rotated to unfurl the sail (sleeve luffs, here).  Or is that not a problem with tracked sails?

[Travis Votaw]

Jeff, with the sail tracks on Pilgrim, the snotter tackle remains attached at the mast during the reefing process.  The tackle is loosened enough to re-set the sprit end into the new clew loop and then re-tightened, so you never lose control of the sprit.  :-[Having said that, I did turn the sprit loose accidentally once during a gale when I was reefing the main.  The storm began to build while I was running downwind, and just when I decided it was time to put in a reef and turned up into the wind, the worst part of the thunderstorm hit.  Pretty good fight to control the loose clew and during the process, the snotter tackle came unreeved (because I had neglected to cleat it off properly after I had loosened it), and the forward end of the sprit fell into the bay with me left holding the loose clew and aft end of the sprit

The boat was hove to on port tack, so my crewman was able to come forward to hold the thrashing clew and sprit end while I went forward to re-reeve the snotter tackle.  Thank God for good solid handrails ;D

After all that, we got the reefs tied in on main and mizzen.  Oh, yeah, I also lost a good pair of sunglasses overboard in the tussle >

It gets easier 8)

[Brent]

What I might be interested in is anything that will help sailshape in really light air.

Alan,  I sail in the midwest where we gets plenty of light air sailing time.  Here is what I would recommend.

Build the snotters by laminating as Charlie describes them and make the aft ends as tapered as possible.  Follow the plan dimensions and trim as much wood off on the outboard end as possible working down to something in the 1 x 1" range.  Should be plenty strong and light. 

Before I started messing with alternate snotter connect points play with snotter tension first.  In light air a deep belly in the sail will give more power - this is accomplished by easing the snotter.  Gravity tends to drop the forward end of the sprit when the snotter is eased.  Watch the leach of the sail - letting off the snotter significantly changes the leach shape - and a little experimenting will locate a sweet spot.

Consider the location of the sheet blocks on the deck.  Position the blocks to maximize horizontal pull on the sail and minimize pull in the verticle direction.  I have a yoke that puts the mizzen sheet turning point about 16 inches off the rear deck - minimizing downward pull by the sheet when close hauled.  This is helpful on the mizzen which is usually sheeted in closer than the main when close hauled.

For the main consider taking steps to minimize the weight of the sheets on the sail.  I have a 3/8" main sheet to be easy on the hands - but 3/16" is plenty strong enough.  I would not care for 3/16" sheets but have considered connecting the the main sheet block to the sprit by a long section of 3/16" line to minimize the weight of the sheets on the leach clew.  This is especially useful when running where the sprits are wide and away from the centerline.  Alternately when the wind is light and I am running off the wind I have been known to unreave the main sheet from a double run to the sprit to just a single run with a stopper knot - reducing the sheet weight by 50 percent.

[Brent]

Make the end of your sprit that runs through the loop on the clew about 4" long tapered from 1 x1 " down to about 1/2 x 1/2".  This allows the clew loop to run well onto the tapered end of the sprit.  This will require making the sprit slightly longer than the plans dictate.  When reefing push the reefed clew loop over the primary clew loop.  In this way the clew is never separated from the sprit.

Make a mark on the snotter that indicates when the snotter is loosened enough to easily allow the reefed clew loop to be run over the tapered snotter end.  This mimizes the bouncing that an overly eased snotter can cause in a blow.

With this setup you wont find yourself trying to stab the sprit end into a wildly dancing clew that is flaying about in the other hand.

[JeffM]

Aha... a track sail has a separate clew loop for reefing!  I only have one, so for reefing it's really the forward end I need to keep control of while I turn the mast and tie in the reef through the grommet that is meant to be the reefed snotter connection.  I suppose I need help with the flogging clew mainly during set-up.

[Ken_Potts]

I've had the same issue Jeff mentioned with keeping the clew loop on the end of the sprit but I'm getting better each time I try it in a breeze (I haven't found much opportunity this year to struggle with too much breeze, though).  So far what I've come to is I make sure that I put on my clown shoes before rigging in a breeze.  That way the passengers who are clinging to the rail think I'm just chasing the clew around for entertainment purposes

    Seriously, though - I've found that I'm okay as long as I install the sprit boom in the clew loop while I'm standing right at the clew - Then I hold the sprit boom tensioned against the clew loop while I step forward to rig the snotter.  That requires the boat to be headed into the wind (so the clew isn't overboard) but that gets easier every time I go out.

  If keeping the clew on the end of the sprit was an issue for me I think I would put some kind of keeper on the end of the sprit. A hook or a rope loop with a button or something like that.

  I tend to adjust the downhaul and snotter pretty frequently.  Not because I necessarily have to (I'm not a racer) but because I can.  I will probably end up making both double ended so I can comfortably adjust them on either tack (I rigged as-drawn so I have to luff a bit when I'm on port tack and the wind is up).  I've currently got the downhaul and the snotter turning up the main mast at blocks on the foredeck (not on the mast) and I will probably keep it that way when I go double-ended.

Alan,

I'm going to try to sneak a morning sail in before Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow.  Let me know if you're interested (bring your dad/mom if you like).  I'll try to remember to check the forum before I go tomorrow.  Otherwise we'll sail another time.

[Dale Niemann]

Thanks Terry for the reefing sequence.  I have been trying to figure this out.

Would you be able to post photos of the downhaul points on the sail and also the base where the blocks turn the downhaul back to the cockpit or wherever.  I am still trying to figure out how your multiple downhaul works.  I have found in my tests of reefing (on land at least) that with one downhaul and the snotter lead back to the cockpit it is very difficult to loosen everything and tighten everything up while at the base of the mast in order to change the downhaul points on the sail.  I see that a downhaul for each reefing point is a very good idea.

I have found since installing the sail tracks and following Graham's most recent advice of not fixing the masts that they rotate with the sail very smoothly.

[Guest wwbaginski]

Loking at these photos:

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs15.htm 

I can see a sailor who is reducing fore sail area being alone. What seems to be obvious:

1. he let the main fly free

2. he reefed the mizzen

3. tied the mizzen along boat's long axis

4. went forward to reef the main

however, what kept a boat facing the wind when he was reefing the mizzen?

[Peter HK]

Hi

I sail a schooner and the mainsail (the aft sail) is often reefed. 

The general technique is to fore reach at about 60 degrees from dead to windward with the foresail a bit eased and with the helm set to leeward- barely maintaining forward motion. The mainsail flogs but is easy to reef. If single handed then a line to hold the tiller to leeward is necessary- It can't tack as the centre of effort is so far forward- it's like heaving to.

Peter HK

[JeffM]

Thank you Mr. Baginski--I'd been meaning to ask that.  And thank you, Peter: I think I'll try that next time out, so I can leave MY clown shoes in the locker.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I was thinking about drilling a hole in the aft end of the sprit at the un-tapered area and adding a cord.  Thread the cord through the loop in the sail and then use the cord to guide the sprit into the loop.  Both times I have needed to reef, the wind came up so fast and hard that I had a hard time getting the end of the sprit into the new loop...trying to hold both the sail and the sprit and having the effects of the wind pushing on the sail or flapping it back and forth.  I would just about get it to the loop when a gust would come up again and requiring starting the process all over again.

I think I will add a topping lift to both sails.  This will keep things closer to alignment.  I also like the idea of a downhual for the two reef eyes in the sails.  We are going from ultra simple (sleeve luffs) to pretty complicated. 

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

The latest sprit design has changed from when I got my plans.  Graham sent me the new one with my sail track order.  The fore end of the sprits are now tapered where the block attaches to align the block better to the becket.  Also now there is a dowel in the aft end of the sprit rather than a carved taper.  Are these modifications helping.  Is it worth modifying mine?  I could make the dowel long like Brent suggests for taking up the new reef loop and leaving the old loop attached.  I have never gotten my main snotter to operate smoothly.  Would the change in angle on the sprit help?

[Ken_Potts]

  wwbaginski and Jeff,

  There are a couple of things I've done to steady my CS17 while going forward.  Usually I haul the mizzen sheet in hard and let the main sheet fly (with the centerboard DOWN).  That brings the boat into the wind.  Once the boat is pointed into the wind I tie the tiller off centered (otherwise as the boat starts to back up the rudder swings up against the transom, leaving divots from the pintle fasteners).  The mizzen keeps the boated pointed into the wind as long as it is sheeted in hard and the main is flying free.  That said, the boat makes pretty good headway backwards so I try to  arrange a bit of sea room to leeward.

  With my limited experience with this boat I have run into conditions where it was difficult to stand on the foredeck and mess with the main because even though I've sheeted the mizzen in hard and tied the tiller off centered, the boat ends up turning a bit and heeling when the mizzen fills.  I have two solutions for this (one tried, one untried).  once I was having a hard time getting the boat to sit nicely into the wind because I had to do something to the mizzen and could not sheet it in to heave to.  I raised the centerboard and let BOTH sheets fly and the boat headed directly downwind, allowing me to sort something out at the clew of the mizzen while in the cockpit.  I had plenty of water to leeward in that situation and was able to sort things out while headed downwind.  If I had not had so much room I would have dropped anchor and fixed things while stationary (one of the benefits of sailing shallow water).

  The clown shoes really do help with traction, though.  It's not just about entertaining the passengers. 

  Now that you've read this I have to add the disclaimer - I'm not an old salt - I'm a relatively new sailor.  Many more experienced folks will have better tricks for keeping the boat upright while going forward.

[Terry Dunn]

I have dowels in the aft end of my sprits. I think they go into the loops easier than with my poorly carved ends that I did have. I didn't think of putting the dowel in multiple loops when reefing. Gotta try that next year. My dowels should be long enough for two.

Before I converted to sail track I got caught in a sudden 30 mph or so breeze with both sails iin place and could not get my 20 to heave to. Looking back I think I didn't have my center board all the way down. I had never had a problem getting her to heave to before. But I had not tried in that much wind before either.

I haved heaved to and put the rudder hard over. The boat balanced out and didn't go backwards quite as fast. The GPS showed 1.5 mph.

[Ken_Potts]

  Thanks Terry,

  I'm probably going to sneak out of work Wednesday afternoon because the wind is supposed to blow.  If there's enough wind I'll try heaving to with the mizzen sheeted in and the rudder NOT centered.  Usually when I heave to it's because I've got something I need to do but I really should play around some more just to see how the boat behaves with various sheet and tiller settings.

  In my bungling I have managed to take note of how hard that boat works to keep itself upright.  There seems to be a sweet spot when the boat is heeling where the increasing righting moment of the hull and the decreasing heeling power of the rig cancel each other out and the boat sort of pauses for a second to let me take action.  The nice thing is that it happens before the coaming is wet on the inside 

[Doug Cameron]

I used to sail a Sea Pearl, a heavy double-ended 22 foot cat ketch.  To heave to, you sheeted in the mizzen hard, loosed the main sheet, and loosed the tiller.  I usually dropped both leeboards, but I'm not sure that mattered.The rudder compensated when the mizzen tried to sail off, keeping you in irons.  Useful when you need to pee or get food or reapply sunscreen.  I've done it in 20 kt. winds and three foot seas and felt comfortable.