Dinghy Payload capcity

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

I need a dinghy to tow behind my Core Sound 20. What is the smallest size recommended for 500# of people to get from the anchored CS20 to shore in calm water conditons? Is it realistic to tow any of the Paw dinghy's? Obviously wont fit on deck, but we frequent areas with large tidal exchanges with 300'+ of tidal flats between anchorage and the high tide mark. Should we just consider an inflatable?

[Greg Luckett]

Joe,

Just about any of the 8 foot pram dinghys should work, but it puzzles me why you would want one with the CS20. It is a shallow draft boat that you could do most anything the dinghy could do too. What am I missing?

Greg.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Greg,

What you are missing is 300' of carrying a 600# boat to the water, over mud/rock mixture. With one or two people...that is a task!!! Then there is carrying it back. Not a reasonable task for a short sail. Sometimes the wind is dead calm and I decide that when the wind comes up that I want to take advantage of it. The prospect of carrying the boat to water squelches that thought. :shock: Some good pics of our dilema in the Nov/Dec issue of Small Craft Advisor...page 28. Note that my CS20 is high and dry and how far the water is from it (lower left pic). The tides dont work on 6 hours either. You can go for as much as 18 hours between high tides ( Diurnal Tides). It goes out...then back in for maybe a foot and then back out lots more.

[Greg Luckett]

That makes sense. I was not thinking of removing the boat from the water, but only of going to and from shore. You are unable to just tie a dinghy up on the shoreline due to the tides and rocks, right?

I have built two prams, one a PK78 from Bateau, and the other the Nymph from Instant Boats. I like the Nymph better of the two even though it is smaller. I think a small Spindrift from B&B would do the job nicely too, but I like the prams for hauling a lot of cargo and the way the space lays out.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Greg,

You got it...if you beach at low tide, you better be around to bring her in as the tide comes in. If you beach at high tide, you better be willing to wait for a LONG time to get back to the water. Most of us anchor in the harbor and use dinghies.

Maybe I should just get a rubber raft. If I do some raiding, I wont be able to tow anything. Too much drag. Maybe they would consider it a handicap though and require it? Naaaa, I am too fat and the rowing will be hard enough without a parasite behind us.

[Hirilonde]

Well I know from having built one that the Minipaw sure is light. There is something to say for that for your situation. I think Charlie has proven it can carry 400 lbs, but 500 may be pushing it. A Spindrift will tow better, but they start at 9 feet, and weigh more. If towing will only be an occasional thing then a small pram would be my tendency. Could you leave it on your mooring while out sailing? If towing will happen often I would lean towards something that could plane easily like the Spindrift.

Seems half the fun of boating is making decisions :wink:

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

The initial cruise and return trip is a minimum of 25 nautical miles. This is where I am most concerned about towing...as you can encouter 2-4' wind chop. Its either one extream or another...not enough wind or bordering on too much. Once at a location, I can easily anchor the tender to the Core Sounds anchor and buoy. But I gots to get there. And then there is the situation of cruising and camping each night on land. Pretty much need a dinghy...even though the CS is a beach boat.

Will the Spindrift's actually tow better than the pram, Catspaw's. For the same carrying capacity you need a longer boat and heavier boat.

[Charlie Jones]

To answer your question about towing a Minipaw, check out this video. It was taken aboard Tehani some 25 miles out into Gulf of Mexico..

Later that night we were reduced to a reefed main and reefed jib when it got ROUGH.

www.sailfar.net/video/gulfofmexico2.wmv

THe 'paw trailed us all the way to Florida and back on TWO trips, including 3 1/2 days offshore. That's about 3600 miles all told.

[Greg Luckett]

That was fun, Charlie!

Sam and Ben enjoyed it too.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Charlie,

Wow, thats a pretty good testimonial! Looks like you were moving along at a pretty good clip. The conditions are never done justice in pics or video's. I would estimate that the conditions in the video are about as rough as it gets under reasonable summer conditions where I sail. Looks like Graham's pram was right at home...bobbing like a cork.

Thanks!

[JeffM]

I'd imagined beaching my cs20 routinely, but found that either the pounding it took in breaking waves or the risk of grounding as the tide went out forced me to anchor more often than beach. For a short stay, I try to anchor in as little water as possible so I don't have much wading to do. For a while I considered putting a little two-paw on the foredeck, but decided it would be a logistical nightmare even if I could get it to fit. Now I have an inflatable kayak. I carried it on my last cruise (stuffed under the starboard bunk beside the cb), but never needed it. It's a good little boat for me and my (100#) son; I don't know how easy or difficult it is to enter and exit from the larger boat.

My desire for a lighter (cartop), really beachable boat with a good capacity has me hard at work on a Michalak Piccup Pram. But at 12' long and 4.5' beam, its too big to tow efficiently. A proper (Birder 2) kayak is also in the works--I expect it would tow very nicely!

[Frank Hagan]

Hey Charlie, what's with the big grin? Oh wait, I remember, that's the SAILING GRIN. Gotta get me another one of those soon (its been waaaay too long).

Joe, you might take a look at some of the lightweight kayaks made out of folding frames and fabric or plastic ... I had this one bookmarked: http://www.tucktech.com/index.html

I've seen others out there to build; not plans really, but websites where guys have made them and just posted the instructions.

Some of the inflatables and other "portables" are pretty heavy, so I think "carrying weight" would be an issue for walking out to the water.

[Charlie Jones]

LOL- ya want light? here's the mini, without seats, but otherwise built.

I understand the boat isn't for every one, but we have continuously been amazed at the little thing. You DO want some foam floatation in it, cause it'll sink with you if full of water.

[Greg Luckett]

Charlie, is that the one I saw sitting in your yard when we visited? For some reason I thought it was an 8 footer rather than a 6-1/2 ft, but then I just glanced at it while dodging the rain.

Greg.

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

Here is a pic of the problem we face in the San Juan's. This was my first trip. I was ignorant about tides in the area. Tide was going out at bedtime...so I figured that the boat would be high and dry all night. Wrong. The tide went out for an hour and came back in. Left the boat as you see it and the yard for the mizzen was laying on the beach next to the boat. Got damn lucky that it didnt float out with the tide.

That is a long way to carry a 600# boat! Note the boat directly behind me. He is on a 150' clothesline setup that is supposed to bring the boat ashore from his anchor.

[Charlie Jones]

Probably so Greg-only pram we have.

[JeffM]

Joe, you're asking a lot for a little dingy to carry 500lb. You'd need to displace at least 8 cu ft of water. For the ideal shape for displacing the most water with the least draft--that is, a flat bottomed box--and keeping the draft to, say, 6", the boat would have to have a bottom surface area of 16 sq ft. (And a flat bottomed box wouldn't tow, row or motor too well, either!) Even my 11' pram would, I think, be past its capacity with that load. Gotta see how it tows, though...

[Bud_Wilson]

Joe I think B&B Pr 78 will carry 500 lbs, it's only 8' X 41/2'. I just bought the plans and intend to build it as soon as I get another project finished. The plan says you can build it in 20hr. it will probably take me about 60hr. O well that is 20hr.building time 20hr. siffleing time and 20hr.setting in the mooaning chair. Y"all Come Cap'N Bud.

[Terry Dunn]

Joe,

I have had 4 people in my spindrift 10 while rowing. Perhaps 4.5 because I think my daughter was expecting at the time.

I need to qualify that none of us is very big and one was my grandaughter who was about 4 at the time.

I fugure we were at about 450 lbs. Perhaps a bit more with the .5 person.

The parks guys thought we had one too many in the boat. I thought it rowed just fine with the load. My grandaughter liked the S10 more then the CS 20 because she could reach the water over the side easier.

My s10 is heavy. Fir plywood. Encapsulated in glass. I think it weighs over 130. I considered putting it in my CS 20 when we drug it to the PNW last year. But I did not consider it for long since it is heavy. We were only planning to go to places with docks to tie up to so I never did try to put my s10 in the CS 20 for transport.

20 years ago we rented a 30' sailboat and put 5 people in the plastic dinghy that came with it to row ashore. Our three children were much smaller then.

Do you think it would be a bit of a challange to climb in and out of a dinghy from a CS 20? Seems like two tender platforms.

[Charlie Jones]

LOL- As posted before- He's ( in the stern) 260 (that he admitted too), I'm (rowing) 165. Total 425 pounds in a Minipaw. Note the freeboard remaining?

I'd think any pram style boat larger than the Mini would easily carry 500 pounds- IN CALM WATER!!! I sure as the devil would NOT have rowed that guy ashore in any kind of seaway. Laura and I use the Mini in rougher water when we need to. I don't particularly like it and we aree quite careful. I did add some foam floatation to the boat and I CAN reboard now over the stern, but it takes in a good bit of water when I do it.

Please understand - I'm NOT touting the minipaw for every one. We originally built it because it was small enough to go on the bow of our 21 footer. It will NOT fit on Tehani's bow, so we are forced to tow, even offshore. Anytime you are towing a dinghy, firmly plant the thought in your mind that that boat is expendable. If the weather gets really bad, you may find yourself cutting it away and never seeing it again. I've had to cut one dink away in heavy seas. Didn't take me but a second or two to make the decision either. Fortunately we recovered the dink later that day as the weather moderated ( Chesapeake Bay)

What to use is a real tough choice. We have been looking at small roll up inflatables for our offshore sailing. One that we could stow in a cockpit locker. Along with a small outboard. Problems arise when cruising though. Many anchorages have quite interesting things to explore by dinghy, that are a good ways away- most find themsleves wanting a planing dink so they can get somewhere and back in a reasonable time period. Dry Tortugas comes to mind. While anchored off the fort, you wanna go snorkling or make the run over to Garden Key to tour the light house- 5 miles each way. Kewl to do at planing speeds- not gonna happen if you are rowing.

So I don't know what the real answer is. If I figure it out, I'll let you know, but then it'll be the answer for US, and might not apply to you at all

Such is the joy of cruising