Wood Species for stringers, inwale?

[Doug Cameron]

I have bottom and sides scarfed and cut out for the Core Sound 20. The transom, bulkheads, and temporary station are cut out.

I have some clear pine and some poplar (the fafavoritef the late Robb White). Will either or both work for stringers? For inwales?

I hope to put the book together this weekend or early next week and open it soon after unless I have to go in search for other wood..

[Charlie Jones]

Of those two, I 'd certainly choose the clear pine.

My wood of choice is fir. The pine should be fine though.

[Tom Lathrop]

Ray,

Surely you can get juniper (Atlantic white cedar) nearby. Much more rot resistant than spruce and more resistant than Douglas fir. Plenty strong enough for glue strips although I don't like to bend it a lot. Western red cedar is a good choice where it is reasonably priced. Cypress is also good where available. These are the common names for the these woods, no scientific nomenclature corrections necessary.

Poplar is as good as spruce. That is, not very resistant, Robb's thoughts to the contrary.

[Howard]

Tom:

You mentioned cypress. Did I read somewhere that while extremely rot resistent, cypress will take on water, swell and pop glue joints? Don't know if that is the case or not. I have some scraps and they seem prone to checking pretty badly.

I ask, as for future boat projects, I have access to two, full sized southern swamp cyrpess 2 x 12's, both 18' long and totally clear. These are leftovers from a construction project from back in 1965 and have been stored in a barn. They are rough sawn, but could be ripped into cleats galore.

[Tom Lathrop]

Tom:

You mentioned cypress. Did I read somewhere that while extremely rot resistent' date=' cypress will take on water, swell and pop glue joints? Don't know if that is the case or not. I have some scraps and they seem prone to checking pretty badly.

I ask, as for future boat projects, I have access to two, full sized southern swamp cyrpess 2 x 12's, both 18' long and totally clear. These are leftovers from a construction project from back in 1965 and have been stored in a barn. They are rough sawn, but could be ripped into cleats galore.[/quote']

I think that is true but mostly in the sap wood which is not nearly as rot resistant anyway. Cypress beams will split, as witness some colums in my house. But then most woods of large cross section will split if the heart is included. I was speaking of using it mostly as smaller cross section corner gluing strips. I have about 5000 BF on my house and it is doing very nicely. Projected lifetime is 150 years or so. None of it has split since being hung 19 years ago. I also assume that it is to be well coated with epoxy. Still, I prefer the cedars.

I'm not sure what you mean by checking since I have not observed that.

[Howard]

Tom:

This was a scrap of cypress that I coated with epoxy. Most of the checking is to the left of that knot on the flat sawn piece. The little checks can also be seen on the end view. On the long piece, the long dark line that looks like a pencil line is actually a crack or check, depending on what you want to call it. Runs about 3 feet.

The owner of the local lumber yard ordered several car loads of the stuff and coated his entire house with it. Should be considered "forever". But that is nailed to the side of a house, where it can shrink and swell and generally move in response to weather, even if wet.

One way to find out about the glue joint is to test it. Since that is a scrap, with sides coated but ends exposed, I'll let it soak in water and we will find out. I can also glue up a couple pieces, let them cure and soak those.

I started off using cypress for my gunnels and some cleats on the Spindrift, but later switched to western red cedar for the cleats. I'm hoping that coated with epoxy, it won't matter.

[Travis Votaw]

I had some cypress scraps that I used for tomato stakes once. Termites ate the sapwood right up to the join btwn sap and heart - they wouldn't touch the heart wood :shock: The surface where they quit eating was perfectly smooth, smoother than any tool could make it

[PeterP]

I think that is the biggest problem with cypress. Too much sap wood. Soaks up water you'd swear there's a camel in there sucking it up. Like treated wood it may not rot but it will tear itself apart eventually. Rip it, reglue it - make your own quarter sawn. Saturate the end grain to keep it dimensionally stable. I have floor boards that I made out of cypress seven years ago and they look like new. But I had them in an oil bath for a week b4 I pressed them into service. PeterP

[inboil]

Ah, good opening for wood rant#53--- First of all, its nearly impossible to generalize these days when talking about wood species and where to use them. Too little care is taken in the cutting, milling drying in most commercially available stuff. Just knock it down and maximize yield, then find away to grow it back faster. Wallyworld in wood-Big mac lumber..

Many bad experiences with cypress myself (mostly springing-- some vitually flew off a house I did and had to replace all). Never had any rot, but who cares. By the same token, have a cabinetmaker friend from Fla. who thinks its the greatest; says I've not gotten decent stuff. i do keep trying.

I hate working with doug fir and haven't found any with less than 3/16 growth rings in years except what i've taken off 60's/70's houses. Somewhere I've had a minor rot issuebut its in the fog somewhere. I do keep trying.

My own experience with Western red cedar is that its not as rot resistant as most people think. Better than some, but not even in the ballpark with juniper.

It boils down to getting the best lumber available in your area (tight straight grain) And make sure the end grain has the peepee sealed out of it. If the epoxy doesn't do its job, then we're all pretty well screwed(at least as far as the longevity of our boats). I've always been partial to southern yellow pine,but for heavens sake here in NC most sold as SYP is Arkansas pine- all of ours probably goes to arkansas!!!

[Charlie Jones]

And sadly, true Southern Yellow ( long leaf) Pine is becoming more and more scarce. It grows way too slowly for todays companies- can't get a return on investment in less than 75- 100 years with it- so when it's cut, it is never replanted. The pine plantation is instead planted ( in orderly rows) with a species that can be cut in 30 years ( or less) Of course that species isn't worth warm spit for boat building but why should they care?

I recently found a couple boards of 1 x 8 Doug Fir , 18 feet long, with grain running the whole length of the board. I grabbed 'em.

[Howard]

Inboil broaches a subject I've only slightly considered, but may be more important than we think, and that is using "green" lumber, which will shrink as it dries. Even if it has the KD (kiln dried) mark on it, it will shrink. Not the end of the world if it's in a house, but if it's glued along one side and shrinks, something is going to give.

Recently read an add for one of the old hand saw makers that was using applewood for it's handles. They mentioned it had been allowed to air dry for 3 years!!! before they would use it.

It could be the very best source of lumber for boats is the recycled stuff from old houses, old stores, etc. Good, straight and dry. If it's old sourthern yellow pine, the resin smell will let you know if you got a good one.

[lbrewer]

Cypress and juniper seem to have been the woods of choice around here for the many wooden fishing boats built here over the years. As anywhere, there are not as many being built in wood at all compared to years past. Those species still seem to be the wood of choice at the boatyards that are still around.

In any case, finding a decent board today is a challenge. I went through six pine 2 x4's the other day trying to find a piece 28 inches long without a knot.

My house is over 75 years old. It is built of almost totally clear SYP with a grain count we can only dream about finding today.....hmmm....I wonder if......Naah, better not go there.

[P Doug (WA)]

It could be the very best source of lumber for boats is the recycled stuff from old houses' date=' old stores, etc. Good, straight and dry. If it's old sourthern yellow pine, the resin smell will let you know if you got a good one.[/quote']

How do you get the recycle stuff? Where I live they are tearing down a lot of buildings that were built in the '40's and '50's, they come in with big bulldozers and other heavy equipment and trash it all, load it in trucks and haul it off. They destroy it! BEAUTIFUL WOOD! Cost to much to salvage it!? I've seen huge timbers. straight boards 20' long that they just break up and trash. I cry, but no one cares.... :cry: :cry: :cry:

Years ago when they took out some building like that, you gould go in and request a section, they would give you 30 days to tear it down and haul it off. Guys would swarm over the buildings. I know guys that built their houses from the lumber they got free that way. Can't do it anymore too many liabilities and too big of a hurry.

excuse me I have to go take my blood pressure medicine!

[inboil]

1-- my rant is really directed at the lack of time and energy to search out local small mills,see lumber through the drying process,then use it . Not practical. but possible. In the same vein as P Doug's comment.

2-- If you don't seal the end grain you ain't got much of an experiment.

3--although i do lament its scarcity, longleaf yellow pine is not what i was referring to. Even I don't go back that far.

4-- my experience is almost totally with the world of straight,square,plumb and level (and only occasionally wet)

5--for wood to rot it must be in the presence of both air and water( hence the value of wood reclaimed from river bottoms etc) . Exactly how impervious epoxy is to either i wish i knew. But i suspect the answer to be pretty damned impervious.

6-- I admire Ray's quest for a better product even though it means less for an already stingey bottom line.

5A-- I did things in my one previous boat which my woodworking experience told me not to (glueing long grain to cross grain- long, long miter butts in seat boards) which have so far not been a problem. And this was with cypress-- epoxy coated of course.

OK? OK.

o

k