Cold weather building blues.

[Gregg]

:? :?: I am building a weekender in Louisville, KY. I have a garage to build in, but not heated. My question is what kind of glue can I use that will cure in winter temps the lowest is 5 or 10 degrees, but mostly 30 to 50 degrees. I have the plastic resin glue that stevenson calls for but it needs a temp of 70 to cure. I would like to be building before then.

Also I have been unable to find 3/8 and 1/4 Marine ply here in town. They do sell 1/2 here can I sub the 1/2 for 3/8 on the deck for instance? The 3/8 ACX just did not seem to strong.

Thanks in advance

Gregg

[Charlie Jones]

1/2 is too heavy for the deck. It would work for the hull bottom though. You really need 1/4 for the hull sides. If you add weight above the water line you increase the "tippyness" of the boat.

Your only real solution is to arrange some heat in the garage. It doesn't have to be the entire place- just build a frame and enclose the boat area in plastic tent. Quartz lighting, heatlamps (AWAY from the wood) or electric heaters work well. People have also draped the boat in old electric blankets, or used waterbed heaters on the floor under the boat and enclosed in the tent.

You might also take the wood somewhere else for part of the glue up. For example- when you join the two bottom pieces (and the little wedges) carry them someplace warm, glue them together, let that cure, then carry it back to the garage. Living room floor on a plastic drop cloth maybe?

Oh - and MOST US made AC plywood today is somewhat crappy, sorry to say. For myself, I'd not build a boat using it. For me, if the boat is worth spending my time on, it's worth using GOOD ply. I choose and use BS 1088 Okume personally. In the long run it won't cost that much more.

If you'll do a search on this site for PLywood there have been numerous discussions on that subject.

Mostly- have fun:)

[Greg Luckett]

I live in Southwest Michigan, which has a cold climate also... What I do here is use only epoxy resin, West is my preferred brand, which will set well even down to almost freezing. Cover the glued areas with plastic tenting (as small a space as possible yet completely covering the glued up area) and put small electric heaters under it. Use the fastest hardner available when it is cold. I use the slow when doing large areas where a lot of it is needed such as glassing the hull or in the summer. It will set within a few hours with heat, and several days without heat. I use kerosene heaters to heat the garage above 50F for large layups and mostly for my comfort, then shift to the electric heaters and tenting when I leave the shop.

I use to use exterior grade plywood, but as Charlie pointed out, the quality the last few years has really gone down. I only use Okume or Merianti marine grade now. Its cost is a small part of the overall boat and percentage wise a very good deal.

Good luck.

[kydocfrog]

Hi, Greg!

I didn't know there was anyone else this close. I'm in Versailles. Might have a Kentucky fleet going here, or is two just a task-force?

I'm kinda stuck because of lack of heat also. But in all honesty I have to admit that lack of indoor floor space in my, shall we say clutter-challenged, garage is even more of a problem in weather like this when I can't open the door and spill into the driveway. I do figure that if I could ever have a week, maybe I could get to test launch phase. Right. A week. Dream on. I'm working on reconfiguring the mast hinge area now into a bit more of a braced/cheeked tabernacle layout.

I also found a complete lack of anything decent in the way of plywood in the area. I bought Charlie Girl II with a semi-finished hull from very good marine ply. I know that before I found her I had about settled on a Jim Michalak design and had finally faced up to needing to buy marine ply. I also know that everyone says its a small part of the total cost, and it is, but it does seem like such a big check all at once...

I did find two sources for interesting lumber in the area. One I can't remember the name, but he is over in the Louisville neighborhood area where the Thomas Edison house is. He's a custom cabinet making shop with several sailboats sitting in the parking lot. I bought some really nice mahogany from him at a reasonable price after swapping sailboat stories for a while. He shouldn't be too hard to find. There is a chandlery over there too, but mainly power boat bits and pieces.

The other is Congleton Lumber in Lexington -- a no-nonsense lumber supply yard. I got some drop dead georgeous douglas fir there for my mast. They were really helpful and put in some time helping me sort through stacks even though I wasn't a real contractor. Highly recommended. You can get their phone number by doing a yahoo yellow pages search on lumber in Lexington.

Perhaps we can continue to compare notes as the spring comes on.

David Arnold, aka KYDocFrog

Charlie Girl II

[Mark Gudschinsky]

Gregg, if you're budget can stand it go with good plywood (I prefer Okumee.) It is nicer to work with, and after all of the hours to get to launch day you'll be glad you did. As for your question, I was having problems with glue up in marginal conditions till switching to fast epoxy as Greg recommends.

Glue choices aside, don't let the weather slow you down. get the good plywood coming, then start working on all of the parts and pieces made with dimensional lumber, there are plenty. Unless you have the luxury of being able to work on your boat more than evenings and weekends, you'll use up several weekends. By then the weather will take care of itself.

[Bud_Wilson]

Gregg: Before I went any further with building a weekender I would check out the weekender adv.on for sale or tr. on BYYB. sounds like a good deal to me boat with trailor almost finished $500 bucks. The guys name is Rick Smith said he had $1200 in the boat and $850 in the trailor. You might want to get in touch with him and see what you think. Y'all Come Cap'N Bud.

[Gregg]

Thanks everyone for your help and advice on glue & wood choice. I will put some heat in the garage for glueing, maybe use some cold cure epoxy. Good wood is also a must so I will call Noahs, unless there is a better source.

Thanks again

Gregg Lambert

[Greg Luckett]

Gregg,

Noahs will cost an arm and a leg due to shipping cost. Diligent searching of your local area will hopefully locate a source closer to home. I found a place about 30 miles from me, which is not too bad a drive, called Johnson's Workbench. They do not stock a lot of the marine grade stuff but can bring in more from other stores at no additional charge. Look for this sort of place for your needs.

A really nice thing about epoxy resins is that the wood joints do not need to be as well made as when using the older glues, and in fact you should not clamp up an epoxy glued joint as tightly.

Good luck and welcome to the gang of boat builders!

[Scott Dunsworth]

Gregg I couldn't find any good marine ply in the Louisville area. I live two hours from Louisville and was hoping to find some there. Greg is right about the shipping. (Sort of) Depends on what you personally call high. I ordered 700 lbs. of ply from noahs and it cost a little less than $200 shipped to a Yellow freight terminal. Shipping to a home address is about half again as much. So if there is a freight terminal close by they will call you when it arrives and you can pick it up.

Scott

[JeffM]

Greg, I built a Core Sound in an unheated garage here in New England. I saved centerboard and rudder work for February, cause I could do it in the basement (semi-heated), or kitchen (supportive wife!). If I just HAD to work on the boat, I did interior work. I covered the hull with blankets or whatever was handy, and set up a cheap, low-profile electric heater inside. (Auto-shutoff on tip-over and a thermostat were features worth their weight.) I'd heat the interior ahead of time, then work fast to coat with epoxy, then cover and heat some more. All in all, the biggest headaches weren't setting time (I found epoxy would EVENTUALLY set at temps well below its advertised limits), but the viscosity (slow flow) that severely reduced the area I could cover, and then drips running all over the place when I wasn't looking.

[Greg Luckett]

JeffM,

The way to get around the thick epoxy is to warm it up before usage and hopefully warm up the parts too. The first boat I built I did not know this and used about 4 times the epoxy that should have been used and lots of runs and drips....moving at glacier speed so I missed them until after the epoxy had set. Live and learn. The folks on here taught me the trick.

Greg.

[capt jake]

All of the epoxy kept at the shop has a light bulb (don't know the wattage) left on all the time to kepp it warm. Even the smaller jugs are kept in a small box with a bulb (slightly open as to prevent the heat from building up too much).

[Greg Luckett]

A card board box?

[capt jake]

Plywood. They have ventilation, as there is a lot of heat given off by a incandescent bulb (sp?) The large drums just have a single bulb under the 2 drums (in a pit).

Maybe Joel will see this and add his 2 cents worth. It does make it flow better when dispensing and mixing.