How much room in Princess 22

[ebenton99]

I have been to the Princess 22 page and seen the pictures but i have questions. Does the Princess 22 have enough room for a couple with 2 children. Accommodations for the children part looks sketchy. I'm unsure where the galley is located. Is there enough room to stock 1 weeks worth of provisions for said couple and 2 children. Thanks

[Designer]

There are a number of possible layouts for the P22. I am showing here a layout I have been working on which gives three good berths and a galley to port. The freeboard has been raised 3" and the cabin and mizzen mast has been moved aft giving a lot more room inside the boat.

While you need to sleep four, depending on the size of your children, the starboard berth could be extended under the cockpit to make room for both of them.

These changes come at the expense of a shorter cockpit. The outboard has been moved aft where it won't tilt. A bracket could be fashioned to raise and lower the motor but the cockpit might be better off if the motor was mounted on the transom and have a roomier cockpit.

[brian watkins]

That's a very pretty looking boat! You won't be making people's decisions any easier, now. Between the Bellhaven and the two Princess 22's (not to mention the 26!), what a dreamer to do?

You could call this one a Prinhaven....or maybe a Bellcess....

Or maybe I should just shut up and build my CS20!

[Joe Nelson CS#35]

There are so many designs out there with large cockpits and small cabins. I think that this is a big improvement!

[John Turpin]

I peeked in Travis' Princess soon after it was finished. I thought the interior looked cavernous. Of course, it was completely empty at that point and new and shiney and bright. But, I was shocked at how much room there was in the cabin. When compared with my Potter 19, it looked very spacious.

My impression was that a small family would have plenty of room in there. Especially when compared with the cabin sizes available on factory plastic boats.

[ebenton99]

As I'm new to the forum, unsure if I should follow up with questions in an email directly to Graham or if I shoulod post it here.

Regarding graham's layout above, how long is the cockpit in this version?

Does the centerboard trunk intrude any further into the cabin?

Any thoughts on a folding galley arrangement like the older Com-Pact 19?

From the Com-Pact Yacht Owners Association

http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=116

and

http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=117

or from Murray Isles Designs 6 Meter Pocket Cruiser

http://www.islesdesign.com/designs/Classic%206%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

[Designer]

The cockpit seat is 8'3" long and the well is 4'6" long.

The trunk runs along side of the galley so that it is almost invisible.

There are lots of cute ideas for fold away galleys, I was intending the Porta Potti under the forward berth which would make the Compac type galley in the way. There is a place under the bridgedeck where the Porta Potti could go. I prefer the galley to go where it is drawn but it could be moved if you need that space for something else.

[wkisting]

Graham, any idea how the extra 3" of freeboard and the relocation of the mizzen mast might affect the performance? (For better or worse... i.e., greater windage? more seaworthy? less stable from higher CG? any other trade-offs?... I realize we're talking hypotheticals since it hasn't actually been built)

Hmmm.... The extra cabin space sounds appealing, but the spaciousness of the original P22 seems more than adequate for 2 or 3, no? I used to think the larger cabin the better, but I've come to realize that the most enjoyable luxury on a sailboat is a large, comfortable cockpit... especially since the cabin only gets used to crawl into and sleep, or to sit up and read a book. I'm assuming the sole reason for this altered design is to increase cabin space, right? Even the extra 3" of freeboard?

[Greg Luckett]

As I'm new to the forum' date=' unsure if I should follow up with questions in an email directly to Graham or if I shoulod post it here.

[/quote']

I would like you to post your questions here. This allows me to learn more.

Thank you.

[Travis Votaw]

The version I have has one berth on each side of the cabin with the portapotti in between the berths in the forward end. There is a storage area each side of the portapotti forward of the berths. There is a galley space aft of each berth.

The bottom companionway step lifts out of the way so I can slide an Igloo 5 day cooler under the bridge deck alongside the centerboard trunk.

I haven't taken time to organize the galley yet. I want to build in a few small cabinets for dedicated storage of galley items.

A medium sized kid could sleep on the cabin floor in a pinch (inclement or cold weather. The cockpit is large enough for three adults to sleep on the seats and bridge deck in warm weather. I'm pulling her down to Lake Texoma tomorrow for a four day sailing trip and I may be sleeping out there myself if it is too hot.

There is an immense amount of storage under the lazarette, cockpit seats, bridge deck, galley cabinets, berths and each side of the portapotti, not to mention the very adequate anchor locker (two five gallon buckets stand side by side for storing anchor rodes).

Sail On!

TV

[Greg Luckett]

Travis,

I camped a few times on the southern Lake Texoma shore. Watch out for those large, green flies. Their bite hurts. We used to go out into the lake and just have our noses above water when those flies came around and we stayed that way until the flies left. Otherwise, we really liked that lake.

Greg.

[wkisting]

Hey Travis,

Do you have any interior pictures of your P22? I've seen a bunch of the outside (very nice looking boat), but I don't recall ever seeing the interior layout except for some building photos Charlie posted quite awhile back.

If you do have pics, I'd love to see them.

[Greg Luckett]

Me too .

Incidently, I ordered a Princess 26 plan set this evening and also spoke with Graham. They are weathering the storm well so far.

[Travis Votaw]

I'll take some pics and post them when I get back from BOOTS.

[Designer]

We are back up after Ophelia's visit. We lost power about 30 minutes after talking with Greg. Our area got off fairly lightly, as the eye jogged to the east just in time. I spent yesterday doing storm damage assesment with the fire dept and beside the usual tree damage we found only minor flood damage, lots of private docks carried away and a few roofs torn up.

Tom Lathrop had 6" of water in his shop.

How will the raised freeboard affect the P22 sailing performance? The standard boat has above average stability at typical sailing angles of heel so the raised center of gravity should not be a problem. There will be some more windage probably noticeable when beating to windward in a strong wind. In a knockdown situation the heeled center of bouyancy of the +3" freeboard moves up slightly more than the center of gravity raises so that knockdown recovery should be at least equal to the original design.

[Greg Luckett]

Graham,

How about adding to the keel ballast? Would that offset the effect of higher free board? Just guessing on my part

Glad you all are ok after that storm. Good news.

Greg.

[Frank Hagan]

Does anyone really use the galley on a small boat? Maybe its the semi-tropical place where I live, but all of the small boats around here never have the galley used ... except for heating water for morning coffee ... and tend to put a bar-be-que on the rail or cook in the cockpit.

[Howard]

Frank:

My guess on galley use is that it depends on how much time you spend on the boat. On my current 17 footer (similar in size and layout to the Bellhaven), it has a galley, and I have stayed on the boat for as long as a week or more. During those times, and even on most over nights, I use the small galley, although it is too small to really be of any use. I normally cook inside as it's out of the weather and I don't have to move the whole setup outside...and the stove stays well away from the engine's gas tank.

The galley is adjacent to the hatch, and has a small cooking platform large enough to hold my single burner Origo stove. Next to that, a small sink, which drains overboard. The sink has a pump, which was originally hooked up to a 3 gallon water tank. The tank is gone...so the pump doesn't work. I use gallon jugs or MSR water bags. The sink is used to wash dishes. Hot/warm wash water heated in a pan on the stove. I use a quart sized spray bottle....cold water with a few drops of bleach....as my rinse water. Misting saves lots of water.

I normally cook a hot breakfast and hot dinner (at anchor) and try to survive during the rest of the day on cold stuff.....sardines, prepared meals, snacks, etc. Something that can be eaten while on the move. But also...most of my meals are full blown deals. I don't "survive" on freeze dried, canned chili or MRE's. I try to eat what I normally eat. I even have two small ovens that I can bake with if I want to.

All my dishes, pans, etc. are kept in a small wash tub under the cockpit and within easy reach. Cooler is kept below while underway, and moved to the cockpit while at anchor. Constantly moving stuff is apparently a trade off while trying to live on a 17 footer.

But this boat is a 1978 model. On later models, they did away with the galley in favor of another quarterberth. Folks seem to prefer that as it gives sitting room below for two folks, but then they have to improvise a galley when doing overnights. This has resulted in building sliding boxes, etc. and all kinds of other improvised galley setups.

Bottom line is that I think if you are going to be doing over night trips...especially on any boat with sitting headroom below....one in which you might spend a day or more at anchor waiting out a rainstorm, etc., a galley and some form of head would be important...at least to me.

On the latter, I'd love to hear more about the Airhead composting toilet.

[Howard]

Hey...this is big time Internet stuff. I forgot I can attach pictures. :roll:

BTW....I'd prefer a drop in metal sink. If you have to, you can throw a hot pan in that without melting it or doing any damage. And it needs to approximate "normal" size so that pans and dishes will fit into it...and needs to be deep. A large bar sink might do it.

[Tim Diebert]

I enjoyed your description Howard. Thanks.

What 17' boat is it that you have? Just curious.