Epoxy problem

[Wade]

Hey Guys,

I've been using the West System epoxy (105 Resin and 205 Hardener).

The last couple of times I used it I got a tacky orange residue on top of the finished surface. I can clean most of it up with a rag soaked in acetone but the first disk or two on the orbital sander really gets gummed up.

The time before last it turned cold (30s) before it set up good and last time it got warm and real humid before it set up good.

Any ideas?

[capt jake]

Only a guess, maybe that is what Amine Blush looks like, as I have only read and heard about it, I am not sure. I know that epoxy doesn't like to 'kick' if it is too low temperature and humidity can play in there as well.

I never really cared for the way West set up, so I switched to Raka and really like it's set up and predictability.

[Guest]

Amine blush is the name, clogging up discs is the game. You will need to clean the film of cured resin with a warm water wash, before you sand it. Several items that you can do to partially eliminate this is use the slowest hardener you can get. In west system, the 206 is the standard slow 5to1 mix. But my recommendation for cost savings and working properties is go with the Raka 2 to 1 resin, especially in your area. Yes it takes longer to cure, but you can coat and recoat your work without any sanding within the green stage, that beiing skin cured but not chemically hard. Many other types of resin come in that ratio. GO online and type in Fiberglass Coatings along with Raka. You will also find the delivery service great for both epoxies. A 2to1 resin mix also will give you more material for the job, longer working times, and the cost will drop as much as 40 percent, if you buy it in quanity such as five gallon kits. Buy your thinckening agents when you buy your resin. This will also bring down any shipping cost because of the minimums in it.

[Wade]

Not crazy about West myself. Hard to mix small batches at 5:1.

However, I can get it locally and at a "family" discount.

However (again), I may need to go ahead and order Raka or something in a larger quantity, along with the other stuff I'll need when I get serious on the CS17.

Not sure about the Amine Blush. I kinda pictured it as more of a waxy film. But then you may be right.

[Guest]

Thats exactly what Amine BLush is, a waxy film. Contact West System and they will confirm it, unless you resin is not fully cured, which sometimes is the case, in one day or so, if your surface is cool or cold to touch.

[Wade]

OK, guess I'll have to get serious and order the right stuff. Will save the gallon of West for those warm sunny less humid days.

Thanks for the help!

[Guest]

It cleans up pretty easy, like washing your car, out of a bucket. Its no big deal really. just a nusiance. We use fast set mainly for glue parts, and in small and extreme conditons of hurry up glassing, not to say you can't do your job in it. But when it gets wamrer weather, it will kick in a heartbeat and precure without wetting out your work properly.. If this happens in glassing a large surface, you will say some umpleasant words to you job.

[capt jake]

And I have found that the West is nearly 5 times the cost of Raka. I also found Raka to be just as clear is not more so than West's special 207 clear hardner (for a bright finish)..

[Frank Hagan]

Not crazy about West myself. Hard to mix small batches at 5:1.

However' date=' I can get it locally and at a "family" discount.

However (again), I may need to go ahead and order Raka or something in a larger quantity, along with the other stuff I'll need when I get serious on the CS17.

Not sure about the Amine Blush. I kinda pictured it as more of a waxy film. But then you may be right.[/quote']

RAKA at http://www.raka.com is located in Ft. Pierce Florida, and an outfit I have used before, Fiberglass Coatings, is in St. Petersburg, FL. Their site is at http://www.fgci.com. (They changed their site, and now it is flash-heavy and it takes minutes to load on my computer, so I won't use them again. But if you have a broadband connection, check them out.)

The RAKA site is thankfully devoid of flash animation, and Larry has been very helpful to B&B Yacht Designs builders (Graham recommends them in his suppliers list with the plans.)

[Steve Day]

I would have to agree with Frank. I use Raka and find Larry to be a great guy, eager to help. His product is the only one I have used recently, but I spent a lot of time looking when I was researching my Spindrift project.

Top notch stuff, great service, very personable and friendly folks. It just doen't get any better than that!

Steve

[Brent]

I have seen the orange goo with West System. On One of my canoes the West system never fully cured. I assume I made a mistake with mixing, but dont know how as I am usually very careful about this. End result was the glass bubbled in the sun. I have had to strip the canoe back to bare wood (not fun). After two years the resin is still soft! I will go back with System 3 epoxy.

[capt jake]

This thread is just confirming my decision to go with Raka on my future projects. )

[Greg Luckett]

I have been using the West Systems 105 epoxy without any problems for several years now. If I change to the Raka product, what is the equivilent to the 105? What about filler, filleting, and fairing mixes?

At a glance at the Raka web site, the cost is about 1/3 less using the Raka and not considering shipping cost. Once shipping is added, the cost may be about the same? The local supplier of West charged me $65 for a gallon of the 105, and $26 for a quart of the 206 hardner. These prices are killing me, ugh. On the other hand, okume marine grade plywood becomes more appealing.

Thanks,

Greg.

[capt jake]

I don't recall the axact number of the Raka, but I bought their standard resin with equal amounts of fast and slow hardners. Sometimes I mix the hardners, sometimes I use as is (depends on the speed I want it to kick at.

Their fillers are emensly cheaper than West, though I find the silica needs to almost be sifted (breaks of some of the chunks) and the microballoons seemed a little wet (thoug I left the bag open and it dried out pretty well). I save my old West containers to use as despensers for teh Raka products.

[Guest]

Don't let us sway you towards anything that costs less than you are paying now, and give you more material for the mix. :wink: I use the high tensil, I think he calls it, the 900 series, and the slow hardener, 606. He has several different ones. SO tell him your location and job. He sells all of the products that goes with the resin. He sells fiberglass at a bargin, too. You must let it cure thoroughly. This is a big advantage though for recoating without sanding. It is different than the five to one. But patience is the key anyway.

[Guest]

This is a little thing that I recommend to many folks using a 2 to 1 mix resin. It is very important that you get this ratio mixed properly.

When mixing, make sure when you stir, to pull off the incomplete mix off the stick and allow for it to run down into the bulk mix. I also use like a paint paddle type and witdh, , to mix with will mark the sticks like a paint paddle type, with a permant marker or pencil, in increments such as every half inche or so, and measure consistant to the mixing ratio. This will help in working by yourself. Pumps are a paint in the rear in large projects.

If you are doing this by yourself, in bulk projects, mix in small mixes. The best way I have found to do this, is to find some types of clear cups, around one quart size, two of them and pour each part in seperate cups. Measure with a ruler and mark incremements on the side of another cup for mixes, to allow for you to know how much your are pouring, keeping in mind that the resin will pour slowly, so be careful not to overpour and the hardener will pour fast.

[capt jake]

You must let it cure thoroughly

I actually found it to cure faster than the West.

ANd Oyster is right, Larry will talk you through it, be prepared to answer a few questions, but he will get you where you need to be!

Hey Oyster, do we get a commission for this rant?

[Greg Luckett]

I use the West 406 Colloidal Silica a lot. Looking at the Raka site, how does this differ from fumed silica? I also have been using the West 410 Microlight

[Guest]

Epoxy and glass on a good day and good working techniques makes for lite work with a dreadful job, that it will be if done wrong. I hate also to pay for marketing, as so many products do, such the retail prices and the uniform discount structure that West Sytem has, or must I say that they don't have. Its a pure rip off if you have used a lot of other epoxies, and have taken some of them myself in extreme conditions with complete success. I hear a lot of folks talk about melt downs on the cheaper ones. Well, I can say that this has not happened. Many people use the Fiberglass Coating resin, but let me tell you that stuff tears me up with the acid based hardeners that goes with it. That, as far as my knowledge, is where the big cost diference is. There are really only about four resin makers, I think, formulated a little differently. That maybe stretching it a little, since I am not a chemist, but this is the scuttlebutt of what I hear anyway.

I do have some reservations with his "bulk" thickeners. You do need to either sift them, when you get them, if they come in the plastic bags still, That has been my biggest beef with him. See with me being semi-retired, I haven't bought bulk in about three years. Sometimes I think he has a memory lapses when you call him on the weekends. So catch him mid mornings during the week. :wink: Just kidding there.

[capt jake]

West 406 and their fumed silica are nearly the same. The only complaint I had was Raka's was a little 'compressed, so it had little balls to be broken up. No big deal at all, considering how much $$ I saved.

I haven't found a comparable filler to microlight in the Raka line.

(We are talking about the very light filler that is a light beige in color?). If they do have a comparable filler, please post, as I didn't find it....

I did use there microbaloons and found that to be a very good buy.

Did this help you at all??